Saturday, July 01, 2006

Buckaroo Bugs - switch animators in the middle of a scene and flaccid pistols

Here's an odd thing Bob would do once in awhile. He would take a scene and give part of it to Rod Scribner and then the rest to Bob McKimson. I don't know whether he did that as a practical joke on the two opposite animators or whether he had some casting reason, like one animator was better suited than the other to certain actions.

In the beginning of the scene look at the way Red Hot Ryder's guns wobble like limp you know whats.

That's more of my favorite style of animation movement that I can't figure out why the world stopped doing it. Just a guess: because it's not "realistic"?



The animators change MID-WAY THROUGH CARROT CHEWING!

Scribner animation







And the very next frame is...

McKimson animation!

Note how Bugs' legs all of a sudden become thick. This is the beginning of Bob McKimson's "stubby period". Shortly after this cartoon, McKimson became a director on his own and started drawing all his characters with short stubby legs, pot bellies, small craniums and eyes, and big jaws and fat lower lips. Clampett told me that McKimson was his top animator, but that he would have to lean on him to draw the characters cuter with bigger eyes and more appealing design which wasn't natural to McKimson. Once he got his own unit, he was able to draw more in his own pure style.





In McKimson's own cartoons all the characters had the same basic personality; they were all assholes or "Loud-mouthed Schnooks" who shoved each other around looking pissed all the time-even the normally mild-mannered Porky became a bully-like character in McKimson's world.

I have a theory about why he treated the characters this way and I will tell it in some later posts about McKimson's hilarious cartoons...if you want to hear it.

98 comments:

Gabriel said...

I would never ever have noticed that! In fact i only did when you told us what parts exactly to look. I don't know how you or Thad K or everyone else manage to figure out who did what. Great post!

Hey, first comment!

Anonymous said...

Looking closely at the screens I saw the change, but that is something I would never notice watching the damn thing. It went by so fast.

Arschblog said...

Funny to see the work behind the great cartoons. Thanks that you show it! McKimson forgot the neckerchief in his BB.

Roberto González said...

I've noticed some changes of style in this cartoons but I never knew it had relation with the change of animators. I thought it was Mr Clampett's choice to do it like that. One extremely crazy scene I would like you to comment is that with Porky and Daffy in Baby Bottleneck, in which Daffy's hat changes of position and size in extremely wacky ways.

I have almost forgotten Buckaroo Bugs, thanks for remind me of it.

Of course I would like to read more about McKimson! As a kid I wasn't a big fan of McKimson later work and designs. I even used to prefer Friz...now I'm not very sure. I love Silvester and S.Junior cartoons, and of course Foghorn Leghorn (spelling? he has an easier name here in Spain...his name is Claudio). And thanks to you I'm learning McKimson did an explendid job in Clampett's cartoons. But I'm not a big fan of some of his later Speedy or Bugs stories, except for Hillbilly Hare (that one is brilliant). French Rarebit , for example, is ok but it's not so great for me. But probably I have seen less of him than any of the other "major" directors. Another one I would like to see more of is Frank Tashlin.

Vermaquale said...

I think that one of the biggest things that makes art art is style and I can appreciate it more when I can tell who is animating what.

Randy said...

Were you tipped off by the fact that Bugs suddenly loses the handkerchief he had around his neck?

David Germain said...

I'll comment on this later.

John Alloiscoius Kricfalusi, if you are indeed a proud Canadian, you will post on my latest blogpost RIGHT NOW!!!

It is Canada Day after all. B)

The Butcher said...

"if you want to hear it."

Of course!

max ward said...

Was their anything special about Scribner?

xtracrsP said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Eric C. said...

That's strange.

Hey John, I apoligize for sounding hasty back there. Now I understand that the topics are about the animation and the acting. I was just typing my opinions about the jokes. I don't think that it's nessasary to censor people's comments. I personally am not showing any kind of extreme hate, I just my own personal opintion. If you don't want me to post my opinions on sertain things like jokes then I'll be flexible. I didn't mean to sound harshand I hope you can forgive me about that.

I hope there was no harm done.
:)

makinita said...

Man those are really good observations JK

Danne8a said...

YES!!!!
Let's hear your theory on why McKimson made all his characters bullys!!!
I probably like Mckimson as a director far more than Friz, though.
Hey John, I don't know if there is any truth to this ( just something I heard..), but did Chuck and Friz champion Mckimson to the director seat because they thought for sure Mckimson wouldn't Outshine the two of them as directors like Bob Clampett had?

JohnK said...

>>but did Chuck and Friz champion Mckimson to the director seat because they thought for sure Mckimson wouldn't Outshine the two of them as directors like Bob Clampett had?<<

That's what Friz says.

Maybe someone can post the interview where he freely admits that.

Eric C. said...

Did Bob Clampett used to bully Chuck?

I noticed that Bob illustrated his thoughts about Chuck in the book "Chuck Amuck".

JohnK said...

>>Did Bob Clampett used to bully Chuck?<<

No. They used to be best friends. Even when Chuck started bad mouthing Bob behind his back at Warners, Bob didn't believe it when his artists told him.

Eric C. said...

I see. Thank You for answering my question John. And I hope that you can forgive me. I was just posting my opinion.

gir said...

Does anyone know why chuck seemed to hate bob so much?

JohnK said...

>>Does anyone know why chuck seemed to hate bob so much?<<

He was jealous that Bob was always more popular and successful.

Eric C. said...

I enjoy the Yosamite Sam cartoons that Friz does.

How do you feel about them John?

JohnK said...

>>

I enjoy the Yosamite Sam cartoons that Friz does.<<


I've laughed at a few.

Eric C. said...

Hey John, I've always wanted to know. What do you think of Ed Edd N Eddy?

Thad K said...

Some of that scene has animation lifted from earlier in the cartoon. I believe there is new McKimson animation of Ryder saying "Which way did he go" placed over the old Scribner animation of Bugs' carrot chewing.

I wouldn't listen to what Friz said about McKimson. He just seemed to bad mouth everybody in that interview.

- Thad

fluffy said...

Also notice how HIS BANDANA DISAPPEARS.

You know, that NOT SUBTLE THING which is somewhat more visible than his legs getting slightly thicker.

Talk about not seeing the forest for all the trees...

JohnK said...

>>Talk about not seeing the forest for all the trees...<<

Ha ha. That's funny. I never noticed that. You got me!

Anonymous said...

>>but did Chuck and Friz champion Mckimson to the director seat because they thought for sure Mckimson wouldn't Outshine the two of them as directors like Bob Clampett had?<<

Hey, John. Any guess as to what other animators might have been in the running for the director's chair after Camplett left, aside from McKimson? And any opinion on what animator you would've liked to have seen get a crack at directing.

Don't get me wrong, i'm glad McKimson got a chance to direct but it's always fun to wonder what could've happenend if things had gone differently. It would've been interesting if Warner Bros could've had another unit directed by Scribner. With all the emotion in his work he seems like someone who could've done a good job of carrying on Clampett's manic and looney style

I don't really care said...

"He was jealous that Bob was always more popular and successful. "

That's sad, especially since Jones is responsible for some of the most memorable cartoon frames ever. --After Clampett, I mean, :)

I may be reaching, but could "Clampett envy" be the underpinnings of the Bugs and Daffy rivalry cartoon, where Bugs, representing understatement, gets all the appreciation for doing nothing, while Daffy representing Clampett's unrestrained wildness, gets only yawns...

I never understood where McKimson was taking Bugs' body shape, or why, later in the 50's.

Watching that cut between Scribner and McKimson is really jarring now, as if one of them is fake, but I don't know which...

Eric C. said...

Bye the way John,

Was is considered a bad flat Cartoon Drawing?

I was wondering because I hope my style isn't horribly flat.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7738/2298/1600/Stooges-storyboard-2.0.png

_Eric

JohnK said...

>>Hey, John. Any guess as to what other animators might have been in the running for the director's chair after Camplett left, aside from McKimson?<<

According to Friz, it was Gerry Chiniquy (sp?) who Chuck and Friz were afraid would be wilder like Tex and Bob.

They voted for McKimson because he was mild mannered and they thought they could push him around.

I still think McKimson's cartoons are much funnier and livelier than Friz', at least up until the late 50s when everyone got stiff and lame.

Someone should post that interview with Friz. I bet David Germain has it...

Ryan G. said...

John, is this unusual for a scene to be broken up by differnt animators? animators are assigned scenes to work on but dont collaborate?

christopher said...

Are there any interviews with McKimson? I always wondered what kind a guy he was. Cartoons like rebel rabbit didn't seem to fit the stuffed shirt personality that is usually attributed to him. I was also suprised that Friz and Chuck would let him make cartoons where Bugs acted so differently from the personality they were trying to craft for him.
Thanks for all of these informative posts John! Looking forward to your theories about McKimson!

Thad K said...

John,
Gerry Chiniquy does the stiffest animation in Freleng's shorts. I severely doubt anything he did would be wild!

McKimson was next-in-line to be a director. Schlesinger approached him several times for the job, but he didn't want it. Friz was just being crabby as usual, like you said, when he said that Leon didn't want him in the first place.

I have that interview with Friz, but I'm not allowed to post it. (Not because of what it says, I just don't have permission.)

- Thad

john a said...

I always liked the more aggressive personalities that McKimson gave his characters in the late '40s. They always seemed more like a bunch of unruly street kids, like the Bowery Boys or the Stooges. They were a great counterpoint to Disney's barnyard rubes.

Don't forget Arthur Davis, who was briefly given the director's chair.I heard that around this time a decision was made,either by Leon or Eddie Seltzer,or maybe even from on high at WB,that there will be only three units, so Davis went back to animating, and that's the way it stayed til the '60s.

P.C. Unfunny said...

"In McKimson's own cartoons all the characters had the same basic personality; they were all assholes or "Loud-mouthed Schnooks" who shoved each other around looking pissed all the time-even the normally mild-mannered Porky became a bully-like character in McKimson's world"


I was always curious as to why he made his characters drawn so bulky.

P.C. Unfunny said...

"at least up until the late 50s when everyone got stiff and lame."

Why did it seem Chuck Jones' cartoons got more money the oth4r directors' toons during the late 1950's ? For example "Whats Opera Doc ?", a cartoon I do find over-rated.

Brian Goss said...

Thank you, thank you, John for talking more about McKimson. :o)

Ollie said...

I liked the animation at the start where Bugs was jumping around on that fake horse waving his guns around.

And i can't believe you didn't notice the scarf around his neck disapearing John! I missed it too, but you must've watched this thing a million times to notice his leg getting slightly thicker. That's pretty funny. :)

-Ollie

Eric C. said...

John, can I have your honest opinion about my drawings?

http://ericcrooks.blogspot.com/

_Eric

Thad K said...

It disappeared because the animation of Bugs chewing the carrot was lifted from earlier in the cartoon - It cut into the new animation by McKimson where he didn't have a scarf.

- Thad

Eric C. said...

Hey John,

Why did the guys at Warners always repeted their gags even if some gags weren't theirs.

For Example the famous explosive piano key bit that Friz used was from Clampett's Privite Snafu: Booby Traps.

JohnK said...

>>Gerry Chiniquy does the stiffest animation in Freleng's shorts. I severely doubt anything he did would be wild!<<

Not according to Friz. He thinks he is the most exagerrated of his animators. He says Virgil Ross was too bland.

Thad K said...

Friz must have weird standards as to what was exaggerated then. Put in the Bugs disc from the second set... The dance scenes from "BB Rides Again" and "Slick Hare" are Chiniquy's. Funny stuff... but very stiff! Art Davis was Freleng's best animator IMO (and even better with Sid Marcus at Lantz).

- Thad

Jesse Oliver said...

For some of you people out there that don't know this, Chuck Jones use to be Bob Clampett's main animator in the late 1930's. Go lisen to the Audio Commentary on "Porky's Party" and lisen to the cool stuff that John & Eddie say.

Anonymous said...

McKimson Stories!

Ooooh!
Do tell!
DO TELL!

john a said...

To p.c. unfunny:

Chuck Jones had the same budget as everyone else. When he made "What's Opera Doc?" He engaged in a little creative bookkeeping.Since he knew he could make a Roadrunner cartoon in half the time it took to make an average cartoon, he had all his artists fill out their time cards that they had started on a Roadrunner cartoon when they were still working on "What's Opera Doc?". Eddie Selter would have never allowed Chuck to make it if he had submitted the actual budget.

J.D.P said...

This is off subject but I was wondering if you ever think any of the censored 11? I would love to see a better quality version of 'Coal Black' and 'Tin Pan alley cats' than the ones ive seen. Its really difficult to notice the small things with the youtube incarnations.

P.C. Unfunny said...

"Chuck Jones had the same budget as everyone else. When he made "What's Opera Doc?" He engaged in a little creative bookkeeping.Since he knew he could make a Roadrunner cartoon in half the time it took to make an average cartoon, he had all his artists fill out their time cards that they had started on a Roadrunner cartoon when they were still working on "What's Opera Doc?". Eddie Selter would have never allowed Chuck to make it if he had submitted the actual budget."

Thanks for the info.

P.C. unfunny said...

"Art Davis was Freleng's best animator IMO"

Defintely,I love Art Davis' work in general. I am surprised that Friz said he dind't like Vrigil Ross' work, he stuck Friz used him for years.

P.C. Unfunny said...

EDIT:

"Art Davis was Freleng's best animator IMO"

Definetly,I love Art Davis's work in general. I am surprised that Friz said he didn't like Vrigil Ross's work, Friz used him for years.

Vermaquale said...

>> >>Did Bob Clampett used to bully Chuck?<< <<

>>No. They used to be best friends. Even when Chuck started bad mouthing Bob behind his back at Warners, Bob didn't believe it when his artists told him.<<

>> >>Does anyone know why chuck seemed to hate bob so much?<< <<

>>He was jealous that Bob was always more popular and successful.<<

Did this have anything to do with Bob Clampett leaving WB I have always wondered why he did.

Supreme Cat said...

"Did this have anything to do with Bob Clampett leaving WB I have always wondered why he did."

Clampett's contract wasn't renewed because of late deadlines (Bob McKimson verified this in an interview). He got away with it with Leon because he was in with the family, but the new management did not like it.

SUPREME HAS SPOKEN!!!

Roberto González said...

The change of background rigth in the middle of it, when Bugs leaves, is also very surprising. I actually love this "mistakes" , I think they make the cartoons a lot more surreal, wacky and "underground".

I can't imagine anyone except Clampett doing this. Like I said that scene in Baby Bottleneck...I mean, Daffy's hat is incredibly huge in certain scenes. Also I think his long leg is not always the same, sometimes it's the right one and sometimes the left one, but it totally works.

It's like that Ren and Stimpy cartoon, The Boy Who Cried Rat...it actually took me some time to realize Ren couldn't possibly fit into Stimpy's mouth. The story was so believable I didn't think of it during the cartoon and even later I didn't notice until I thought during a while. Ok, maybe I'm dumb;)

Roberto González said...

I'm sorry, I keep posting "this" instead of "these" in plural subjects. I know it's wrong, though.

Anonymous said...

Your sense of humor isn't mine and I don't always agree with your opinions, Mr. John K, but they're always worth reading and thinking about. I would love to hear about McKimson.

Ohjeepers said...

"Clampett's contract wasn't renewed because of late deadlines"

SUPREME IS MISTAKEN!!! Or perhaps I should just say wrong.

James.

Jesse Oliver said...

I feel that McKimson's drawings are much better looking in Clampett's cartoons. I mean you see a drawing of Bugs Bunny in a cartoon directed by McKimson Bugs eyes look to small. That is proof that whene Mckimson or Scibner animated a scene in a Clampett cartoon that Clampett did some real directing on the scene.

Anonymous said...

I can't wait to hear your commentary on McKimson. My favorite McKimson animation is Hitler in Russian Rhapsody. A big mean looking Hitler too, clearly he was always good at lummox-type characters. It's amazing to me how he animates that speech in the beginning with so much energy and the perspective is dead on.

In McKimson's own cartoons seems like he had everyone animate a version of his own animation except for people who stood out like Manny Gould and Rod Scribner. Windblown Hare is probably my favorite McKimson cartoon because the Three Pigs are such thoroughly disgusting swines.

Kali Fontecchio said...

That's some nice gun jigglin' !!!

Doctor Jones said...

I noticed the change, but it was more towards the hanky around Bugs neck vanishing in a strange way.
Wonder if the Hanky disappearing is a distracion so one doesn't notice the model change.
Bizarre stuff.

Anonymous said...

Anybody know the name of the tune Stalling quotes at the end of the clip? Also the one he uses later when Ryder and horse struggle to return to the canyons edge before they plummet?
Chris

David Germain said...

I have a theory about why he treated the characters this way and I will tell it in some later posts about McKimson's hilarious cartoons...if you want to hear it.

My thoery about McKimson's style and how it came about is that he was mild mannered whilst his colleagues were bold. E.g. When Selzer demanded that Friz not pair Tweety with Sylvester, Friz fought him on that. Their first cartoon Tweetie Pie wins an Oscar. When Selzer demanded that Chuck Jones abandon Pepe Le Pew stating that he was a horrible unfunny character, like Friz, Chuck fought him on it. The Pepe Le Pew toon For Scent-imental Reasons would win an Oscar. But, when Selzer demanded that McKimson abandon the Tazmanian Devil, Bob caved and said "Okay." If it wasn't for Jack Warner demanding Taz' revival, the character would be just a forgotten one-shot today. Maybe deep-down McKimson wished he were a bit more bold like Friz & Chuck and his only outlet for such desires was of course his art (that being his toons of course).

In McKimson's own cartoons all the characters had the same basic personality; they were all assholes or "Loud-mouthed Schnooks" who shoved each other around looking pissed all the time-even the normally mild-mannered Porky became a bully-like character in McKimson's world.

Actually, I've noticed a consistancy within McKimson's entire filmography. I think I've managed to pin them down into auteur binary opposites:

nervy character / high authority
defiance / "cronie"-ism

To further explain those would make this comment much much longer than it already is. Maybe I'll just make this into a post on my own blog to make things easier.

David Germain said...

"Clampett's contract wasn't renewed because of late deadlines"

SUPREME IS MISTAKEN!!! Or perhaps I should just say wrong.


Actually, SUPREME IS INCOMPLETE! Yes, Bob Clampett's contract wasn't renewed and part of it was the late deadlines in particular the most recent one at the time, Hare Ribbin'. Of course, this one would have been on time if the studio heads didn't insist on Clampett changing the ending. The constant pranks on the Jones unit and Clampett's moonlighting took their toll after a while as well. There was also the factor of Leon not being in charge anymore and Selzer taking over. Clampett saw that he wasn't going to like things under Selzer and so was making arrangements to leave anyway. Clampett was an ambitious guy. If he couldn't work on one project he'd try to create others for him to do. That's how he almost immediately found success on TV with Time For Beany.

So you see Clampett went through an odd combination of quitting and being fired. Of course, it's up to all hitorians to sort that whole thing out as to how the chain of events happened.

Brett W. Thompson said...

Of course we want to hear your theory about McKimson :)

supreme cat said...

"So you see Clampett went through an odd combination of quitting and being fired."

No he was fired. He was planning to quit, because Leon wasn't there to help him. But he got bit in the ass and pushed out the door. If he quit, he'd have finished his last two cartoons!!!

SUPREME HAS SPOKEN!!!

JohnK said...

None of this stuff about why Clampett left is historical fact, folks. It's all people 50 years later trying to guess what happened. He produced more cartoons in some years than the other directors did, so he was definitely not slow.

Clampett told me that the political atmosphere at Warners changed after Leon left and Friz says Chuck and Friz were sort of reluctant allies against the Clampett and Avery style, so whether Clampett quit or was fired, while not being clear, seems like it would have been inevitable.

The sad fact is, that Clampett leaving Warners was the worst thing to happen in cartoon history. A complete disaster for cartoons.

Clampett was on such a roll with his cartoons then, and influencing everyone else, imagine how much further he could have gone creatively, had he stayed another few years.

I know I would sure love another hundred Clampett cartoons. Maybe cartoons would have stayed cartoony and imaginative with him still leading the way.

Just a few year after he left cartoons became stiff and boring all over as the conservatives took over.

Tibby said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Eddie Fitzgerald said...

John's right! Clampett's leaving Warners was the greatest catastrophe in animation history!

It's scarey to think how vulnerable creative people are. I'm amazed that anything first-rate ever gets done at all. Lots of higher-ups have to pass on what you do and other directors are constantly running you down and trying to entice your crew away.

Every creative person needs a protector in a high place. Without him you're as vulnerable an ice cube in the middle of a desert. If ever there's a Cartoon Hall of Fame I hope one corridor will be devoted to the great protectors like Leon Schlesinger.

I try not to think about what Selzer, Jones and Freeling did to Clampett or what John's detractors do to him today. Thinking about it just makes me want to beat people up. Why would anybody deliberately make themselves an obstacle to progress?

I don't really care said...

I try not to think about what Selzer, Jones and Freeling did to Clampett or what John's detractors do to him today. Thinking about it just makes me want to beat people up. Why would anybody deliberately make themselves an obstacle to progress?

Some people people are born to create, others are born to appreciate it. Others can only experience joy by becoming speed-bumps.

Pretty much anything goes in tv animation nowadays. Any type of gag, any subject. It's pretty much all permitted now, and R&S helped usher that in, I think.

But john still has a problem getting or keeping air, and I don't think it's his choice of subjects or themes, I think it's the strength of his images, and how he can tweak your id.

TV and movies will let you see anything nowadays. The media gatekeepers only get nervous if what you see makes you FEEL something. John's images are strong and involving enough to make people uncomfortable (if somebody said my cartoon was like getting hit by a train over and over again, I'd probably die happy).

Clampett's problem was similar, I think. He wanted you IN the cartoon, totally absorbed. Friz and Jones thought you should watch from a safe distance. If you are totally immersed in what you see, or even totally repulsed by it --then you are not in the right state to receive the next frito-lay commercial. The movie gatekeepers of old didn't have sponsors to worry about, but they had other cultural sticks-up-the-ass that amounted to the same problem.

Something like that, maybe.

JohnK said...

>>Clampett's problem was similar, I think. He wanted you IN the cartoon, totally absorbed. <<

That sure wasn't as problem for anybody back then.
Clampett's cartoons were hugely popular.

He's the one who made Warner's more popular than Disney and Popeye.

Friz and Chuck had to follow him or get fired.

I don't really care said...

Clampett's style was a problem for his detractors, is what I meant to convey. People like Friz, and Chuck, and Eddie Selter, or Fred Quimby at MGM, and a lot of Disney people would've insisted that Clampett was too wild, but it's just a guess. You are hugely popular, too, I think, for all the noise about how you suck... I guess I'm saying if I had to pick a Warner's guy for an attack by Joe McCarthy, it would be Clampett.

Jesse Oliver said...

Hey John

Do you have a favorite Popeye cartoon?

I don't really care said...

Speaking of Clampett leaving Warner's, what happened afterwards? Was there nobody else to work for? Was there nobody he was willing to work for, or did he really just want to change directions? I saw that one cartoon that's supposedly the impetus of the Roadrunner that he did for -was it Columbia? -but I can't even remember it.

Jorge Garrido said...

>> Was their anything special about Scribner?

He was insane.

>
Maybe someone can post the interview where he freely admits that.

Yeah! Someone post it! Stephen? Do you have it?

> Did Bob Clampett used to bully Chuck?

> >>Does anyone know why chuck seemed to hate bob so much?<<

He was jealous that Bob was always more popular and successful.

Chuck believed Bob had cheated him out of co-director credit on b&w Porky cartoons at the Iwerks studio.

Chuck wasn't "jealous" It's alot more complicated than that, and it'll start another stoopid cartoon controversy if we start up with that stufff again, and we just had a 16-page war about it on GAC. We don't need anohter one ever again.

>>Don't get me wrong, i'm glad McKimson got a chance to direct but it's always fun to wonder what could've happenend if things had gone differently. It would've been interesting if Warner Bros could've had another unit directed by Scribner. With all the emotion in his work he seems like someone who could've done a good job of carrying on Clampett's manic and looney style<<

I'd have liked to see Manny Gould or Bill Melendez direct at WB. Chiquy's directed cartoos weren't very good. I wonder what would have happened if Artie Davis had stayed as a director. Hey, Bill is still alive, HE should direct a new Looney Tune! He still directs Peanuts cartoons!


>>I enjoy the Yosamite Sam cartoons that Friz does.<<
I've laughed at a few <<

Yay!!! I bet it was the earlier ones. Bugs Bunny Rides Again.

>I wouldn't listen to what Friz said about McKimson. He just seemed to bad mouth everybody in that interview.

So you have it? Post it you nut!

>I still think McKimson's cartoons are much funnier and livelier than Friz', at least up until the late 50s when everyone got stiff and lame.

McKimson's first blow was losing Warren Foster and getting stuck with Tedd Pierce. Then he lost his best animators in 1955 after the studio restarted.

> Are there any interviews with McKimson? I always wondered what kind a guy he was.

There are only two. One was published in a book, and there's an unpublished one with Mike BArrier, and he said he'd have to do some preperation for it so he'll post it "one day." Apparently he had very rigid ideas about what amkes a good cartoon. He hated Popeye and Terrytoons!

>Cartoons like rebel rabbit didn't seem to fit the stuffed shirt personality that is usually attributed to him.

I totally agree! I think DAffy Doodles is INSANE, and insanely GOOD.

> I was also suprised that Friz and Chuck would let him make cartoons where Bugs acted so differently from the personality they were trying to craft for him.

Well they all did their own thing. They dind't really have sway over the other units. Friz said he always tried to get back to what Bugs really wa. Friz' version of Bugs was more of a "dems and ddoes" kind of guy, he didn't give Bugs a refined vocabulary like Jones.

>I have that interview with Friz, but I'm not allowed to post it. (Not because of what it says, I just don't have permission.)

Who has the rights to it? BTW, on a TOTALLY unrelated note, do you have msn? Eamil m at blindside_invert@hotmail.com

>I was always curious as to why he made his characters drawn so bulky.

I like the way his characters act but not the way his Bugs LOOKED. Clampett had he best drawings for Bugs. But he should hvae been shorter, like in Jones's cartoons. But not crouched over with legs bent like in the Givens model. Jones made a good point in saying that a character with a lot of confidence would always stand with his weihgt on ONE leg, whereas a character like LATER Daffy Duck would alwyas have his legs bent, ready to run or jump away.

>
Why did the guys at Warners always repeted their gags even if some gags weren't theirs.

For Example the famous explosive piano key bit that Friz used was from Clampett's Privite Snafu: Booby Traps.

I doubt Clampett invented that gag, but I bet it was because the repetitive nature of these cartoons was not as noticable because they were shown in front of movies. It's not like you could watch the same cartoons over and aover again. Unless there was an all cartoon matinee or something.

>Did this have anything to do with Bob Clampett leaving WB I have always wondered why he did.

Oh no! Not that again!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! *kills self*

>I can't imagine anyone except Clampett doing this. Like I said that scene in Baby Bottleneck...I mean, Daffy's hat is incredibly huge in certain scenes. Also I think his long leg is not always the same, sometimes it's the right one and sometimes the left one, but it totally works.

That's the point of cartoons. Friz said that what he loved about Clampett's cartoons, that they were full of mistakes but they were so wildly entertaining than nobody ever noticed.

>It's like that Ren and Stimpy cartoon, The Boy Who Cried Rat...it actually took me some time to realize Ren couldn't possibly fit into Stimpy's mouth.

I love that scene! That's one of the few R&S cartoons I've seen. "TEETH TO THE LEFT OF ME! GUMS TO THE RIGHT OF ME!"

>That is proof that whene Mckimson or Scibner animated a scene in a Clampett cartoon that Clampett did some real directing on the scene.

I agree, but it's probably becsue McKimsons commissioned a new model sheet for Bugs with his new design. I think klangley has it on his blog.

>But, when Selzer demanded that McKimson abandon the Tazmanian Devil, Bob caved and said "Okay."

Or amybe it's because it wasn't a vewwy good character. Or maybe I'm bitter because they made him so ugly when they over merchandised him. Not as angular and too tall.

>To further explain those would make this comment much much longer than it already is. Maybe I'll just make this into a post on my own blog to make things easier.
Post it on GAC! OR do it on your blog and link to it on GAC!

>
So you see Clampett went through an odd combination of quitting and being fired. Of course, it's up to all hitorians to sort that whole thing out as to how the chain of events happened.

Who cares? I mean I'm sad he left but the gory details are always unreliable! And unpleasent!

>None of this stuff about why Clampett left is historical fact, folks. It's all people 50 years later trying to guess what happened.

Exactly.

>The sad fact is, that Clampett leaving Warners was the worst thing to happen in cartoon history. A complete disaster for cartoons.
I couldn't have put it better myself.

>Clampett was on such a roll with his cartoons then, and influencing everyone else, imagine how much further he could have gone creatively, had he stayed another few years.

What if he had started to suck? I mean every good thing has to come to an end. Maybe we would have sat there, watching Clampett cartoons from the 50's, going "what went wrong?" I dunno, John, it seems everytime someone is REALLY good at ANYTHING eventually they lose it. Or maybe he would hAve gotten better and better as time went by. My point is, we can never know. It boggles the mind to imagine what his cartoons would have been like if he had gotten BETTER than BABY BOTTLENECK.

>Just a few year after he left cartoons became stiff and boring all over as the conservatives took over.

Well their budgets were cut, Eddie didn't give them as much freedom, and the war ended. If you include Clampett, Avery and Tashlin leaving, there's four reasons right there why they got less wild.

>I try not to think about what Selzer, Jones and Freeling did to Clampett or what John's detractors do to him today.

Hey, Freleng didn't do anything to him! Jones did, and Seltzer just didn't like cartoons. But I'm with Eddie, I just ignore any controversies. I once read someone's fifth-hand "account" of why Spumco was fired from Ren & Stimpy. It was called the "UNBELEIVABLY TRUE STORY OF REN & STIMPY" It was so biased and ass-kissing. Afterwards, my curiosity piqued, I asked Billy West for his version of the story on his forum, where I post as daffy_duck. After he told me his version, which was also biased and contradicted the Spumco version, I was so turned off that I resolved to ignore the issue altogether, and my enjoyment of the cartoons tripled. I know Bob Camp was involved somehow and he's unpopular among Spumco maniacs, as seen on motlos.com, where I post as Toonami and daffy_duck. But to me, the cartoons are WAY more interesting than any feuds or backstabbing at Spumco or Warner Bros. between Clampett & Jones or Spumco & Nick.

>>Clampett's problem was similar, I think. He wanted you IN the cartoon, totally absorbed. <<

That's a totally good thing, but the problem is, some people view his cartoons as "drawing attention to themselves to the point of obnoxiousness," as some moron said on GAC's 16-page thread on Clampett. I tore his head off.

>Speaking of Clampett leaving Warner's, what happened afterwards? Was there nobody else to work for? Was there nobody he was willing to work for, or did he really just want to change directions? I saw that one cartoon that's supposedly the impetus of the Roadrunner that he did for -was it Columbia? -but I can't even remember it.

You're thinking of Tashlin's cartoon "Fox & The Grapes" After WB, Clampett directed his last theatrical, "It's A Grand Old Nag", for Bob Clampett Productions at Republic Pictures. After, he worked at Columbia. He wrote like three cartoons there but then he started his Emmy winning puppet show, "Time For Beany"

>He's the one who made Warner's more popular than Disney and Popeye.

Fleischer made themselves unpopular by starting to imitate Disney instead of furthering their own New York brand of cartoon surrealism. Popeye rules! They should have continued that style. Then thee became Famous Studios but that's a psot for another day.

Anonymous said...

Can Jorge Garrido please stop posting?
PLEASE???????

I don't really care said...

Clampett directed his last theatrical, "It's A Grand Old Nag", for Bob Clampett Productions at Republic Pictures. After, he worked at Columbia. He wrote like three cartoons there but then he started his Emmy winning puppet show, "Time For Beany"

I am curious about whether he was surviving creatively, having no real place to go in his industry, or if he always wanted to make a living with his arms above his head.

Jesse Oliver said...

Hey Folks

If you have the third volume of the Looney Tunes Golden Collection lisen to the Audio Commentary on the Clampett cartoon "Draftee Daffy". Eddie Fitzgelald tells this hilarious story about Clampett peeing in some ones beer.

Eddie Fitzgerald said...

Jorge: I did say that I try not to think about injustices done to Bob and John but I didn't mean to imply that these injustices don't matter or that the people who perpetrated them should get away with them. I only meant to say that these are painful memories for me.

Eddie

Jesse Oliver said...

Hi Eddie

I love the story you told about Bob Clampett peeing in some ones beer on the Commentary on the Clampett "Draftee Daffy" cartoon.

Jesse

Jesse Oliver said...

Hey John

I know Tex Avery never won any awards for his cartoons but did Bob Clampett win any awards for his cartoons?

Jesse Oliver

David Germain said...

Jesse, Clampett won something like 5 Emmys for Time For Beany. Also, in around 1974 he won a Lifetime Achievement Annie Award. I think that's all.

Jesse Oliver said...

I wonder what the Looney Tunes would have been like if Bob Clampett stayed with WB in the 50's?

Jorge Garrido said...

>>Jorge: I did say that I try not to think about injustices done to Bob and John but I didn't mean to imply that these injustices don't matter or that the people who perpetrated them should get away with them. I only meant to say that these are painful memories for me.

Sorry IF I offended you and THAT I misinterpreted you, Eddie. I thought you meant that the injustices or controversies behind the cartoons would lessen your enjoyment of them. That's what I've found happens for myself. I've read extensively accounts of behind the scenes drama on SNL and I found that I'd be searching for hints of them in the sketches. I then resolved that I wouldn't ruin my personal enjoyment of shows like that anymore. I thought you were saying that that happens for you to. My fault.

>Thinking about it just makes me want to beat people up.

I think that should have tipped me off that they were painful memories for Eddie and people involved. Again, I apologize. :(

>I love the story you told about Bob Clampett peeing in some ones beer on the Commentary on the Clampett "Draftee Daffy" cartoon.

Yeah! And the story of Bob taking staples out of the first MAd Magazine!!! I wanna see a cartoon about Bob, sort of like Fire Dogs II, only good. (ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no I didn't!)

> Can Jorge Garrido please stop posting?
PLEASE???????

If I'm offending you, email me at blindside_invert@hotmail.com and I'll think about stopping. I'm serious.

Anonymous said...

SHUT UP JORGE!!!

YOU TALK TOO DAMN MUCH!!

STOP TAKING UP ALL THE SPACE!!

Jesse Oliver said...

Hey Jorge Garrido

If John did make a cartoon about Bob Clampett I'll bet ya that he will make Bob act just like Bugs Bunny & Daffy Duck. Heres an idea. John should make a cartoon starring Bob Clampett and he can go in to a network executives office and just torture him. It would be like a Screwball Squirrel cartoon, Clampett as Screwball S. and Network Executive as The Dog.

"What do ya think John?"

Jesse Oliver

Jesse Oliver said...

"Oh, one more thing Jorge Garrido"

"FIRE DOGS 2 RULES!!!!!!!!!!!"

Anonymous said...

SHUT UP JORGE!!!

YOU TALK TOO DAMN MUCH!!

STOP TAKING UP ALL THE SPACE!!


Amen brother.... the posts always seem so informative and thought provoking untill this windy blowhard shows up.

J. J. Hunsecker said...

Yeah! And the story of Bob taking staples out of the first MAd Magazine!!!

From what I heard, Mr. Fitzgerald removed the staples from MAD -- in order to make xerox copies -- not Clampett.

J. J. Hunsecker said...

Leave Jorge alone. Skip his posts if you think they're too lengthy.

john a said...

I think the Beany and Cecil DVD really makes it clear what a creative genius Clampett really was,and it's a shame that a lot of his ideas never made it past the test reel phase.

In the late '30s he had MGM and the Burroughs estate interested in making a series of "John Carter of Mars" cartoons,(I'm guessing this must have been due to the success of the Fieisher Bros. Superman cartoons)ERB's family was completely behind the project,and they even helped him on some of the creature designs, based on ERB's descriptions. He had done a test reel, some storyboards and had outlined all the different chapters like a serial.

John Carter was going to be very realistic,and he had done some test footage that used some live reference and some purely imagined artwork too, like a galloping cycle of JC riding an eight legged horse.

The deal was practically set with MGM when some idiot suit decided, "You know, this Mars stuff is just too far out, maybe you should do Tarzan" It turns out they wanted him to do a series about some stupid jungle animals that would call on Tarzan to save them whenever one of them fell in the quicksand. Clampett declined, put all his amazing Mars stuff away,and went on to make cartoon history with Warners.

I think by the late '40s he saw that television was was the new entertainment frontier,and the B&C DVD extras show some of the ideas he pitched to the networks. It's a shame that none of these were ever picked up. I thought the "Island of Dino-Dyno" (or is it Deeno-Dyno?)had a real Sid and Marty Croft vibe to it,(20 years ahead of its time)

I guess the point I'm trying to make is,there was a lot more to this guy than just WB cartoons and Beany and Cecil, while some people might limit themselves to speculating what might have been if he had stayed at Warners, I waste at least three times as much time wondering what the entertainment world would have been like if some of his other concepts had been taken seriously.

Mitch K said...

Hey John, I'm in love with these Bob Clampett posts! And keep posting about these two animators. =]

I don't really care said...

I finally finished the interview on the BEANY and CECIL disc.... he had his own shop on the side doing commercials, and really doesn't seem to have cared much about leaving. I just don't understand how somebody so casually walks away from making the greatest cartoons ever and just says, "I can do lots of things... feh." What could be more important work than keeping Daffy Duck funny?

john a said...

You know, I don't really care:

Who knows why some people choose to do anything. I know that Tex Avery said once in an interview that he was sure that Bugs Bunny was finished after four cartoons,like he had no idea what the future held. But that's just it, no one does. I'm sure Clampett found the Columbia offer new and exciting, but in the final analysis, nothing of any real merrit came out of it.In other cases, some artists and their egos do things that don't seem to be in the public's best intrest. For instance,Walter Lantz had hoped that Tex Avery would do some Woody Woodpecker cartoons when he brought him back in the '50s, but Tex adamantly refused, depriving the world of his take on the character.Ah, the glory of hindsight...

J. J. Hunsecker said...

In the late '30s he had MGM and the Burroughs estate interested in making a series of "John Carter of Mars" cartoons,(I'm guessing this must have been due to the success of the Fieisher Bros. Superman cartoons)
Actually, Clampett pitched the Johhny Carter series a few years before the Superman series ever got underway at Fleischers.

john a said...

I stand corrected. (In my defense, I did say I was guessing.)It just goes to show what a visionary this guy was. He was pitching this series before human males had been successfully animated -and his pencil tests proved that they could be.

Jorge Garrido said...

Clampett's John Carter would have been the first mainstream full length animated feature. Yeah, yeah I know they'd made full length cartoons since 1917 but, come on. It would have been like Snow White, only better.

Ted said...

"I know Tex Avery never won any awards for his cartoons "

http://www.filmreference.com/Writers-and-Production-Artists-A-Ba/Avery-Tex.html

"Awards: First Prize, Venice Publicity Festival, for Calo-Tiger, 1958; Television Commercials Council Award, 1960; Annie Award, ASIFA 1974"

Jorge Garrido said...

>>If John did make a cartoon about Bob Clampett I'll bet ya that he will make Bob act just like Bugs Bunny & Daffy Duck. Heres an idea. John should make a cartoon starring Bob Clampett and he can go in to a network executives office and just torture him. It would be like a Screwball Squirrel cartoon, Clampett as Screwball S. and Network Executive as The Dog.

Great idea, Jesse! At the end, he could say "I'm not Bob Clampett, I'm Napolean!" and go "woo-woo-woo-hoo" into the sunset! Do you have msn, Jesse?

> Leave Jorge alone. Skip his posts if you think they're too lengthy.

Thanks, J.J.! :D

Anonymous said...

just out of couricity, and i know my spelling it bad, but you were saying gags are reused,
I was courious, was the magnet gag Bugs used on Red Hot ever used again?
I know it a crazy question, but i had to ask, also anyone notice a star badge Ryder had?
were did that go did it make him a sheriff, or bounty hunter?
I always wondered there.