Sunday, July 09, 2006

What's Cookin' Doc? - Bugs waits for award



Here's a phenomenal scene from "What's Cookin' Doc" (1944).

It has many interesting points in it.

It's one of those scenes that's part McKimson and part Scribner.

It starts with Mckimson, becomes Scribner when Bugs turns around and walks to the screen and pulls it down, then turns back into McKimson.


The McKimson stuff as usual is really solid and full of great subtle human acting, but also has a few really cartoony parts-when Bugs yells "STOP!", when Bugs does a take and says "Gasp!", and at the end when he is at screen right and he takes a step-his legs stretch out twice as long and he slides over.

In this long long scene there are no animation "cheats"- no overly squash and stretches, no avoidance of clear poses, no extra head bobs that don't mean anything, no drastic overshoots that distract from the poses. The timing is perfect and natural, you can read everything.

The scene looks effortless yet it took unbelievable skill and talent to pull it off. I don't know anyone alive that could do anything this perfect.
This period of Bugs from 1942-1945 in Clampett's cartoons is the best he was ever drawn and animated and acted. It's this stuff that makes him such a real living character that made him last another 15 years or so with lesser work and depth.

I'll post more scenes from the period later.

And hey! Here's some Amazon links to VHS tapes that have this cartoon on it! Buy them and make Warner Bros. happy!








***VERY INTERESTING FACT! - This cartoon was made by Clampett to poke fun at Friz. Anyone know or want to know the story in a later post?

239 comments:

1 – 200 of 239   Newer›   Newest»
Charlie J. said...

wonder how long this one will stay up?

JohnK said...

well talk about the post while it does...

Kevin Langley said...

This is definetly Bugs at his best. I'm really enjoying these posts on Bob McKimson, I never knew he animated most of my favorite Warner's shorts. I mostly thought of him as a director.

Anonymous said...

"***VERY INTERESTING FACT! - This cartoon was made by Clampett to poke fun at Friz. Anyone know or want to know the story in a later post?"

I want to know!

Anonymous said...

That's a great Bugs Bunny. Even compared to the "Gasp" scene, the subtle scenes still have a lot of animation in it. The little movements are very interesting to look at. You have to watch it more than once to catch everything. Much richer.

Kali Fontecchio said...

that anonymous person was me- oops!

I, KALI want to know.

Anonymous said...

Tell us about the Friz story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesse Oliver said...

Hi John

QUESTION:

Sorry If this has nothing to do with Clampett & Bugs but here it is. The back of the Lost Episodes DVD sez that the Bonus Material will have clips from unfinished cartoons. What are these unfinished cartoons?

k.borcz said...

I would love to hear more of the story behind this clip. I'm a big fan of many Bugs animations. :)

Jesse Oliver said...

Back to the post

Clampett made the best Bugs Bunny cartoons. Same saying for Tex Avery. Hey John, I hope the next Clampett cartoon you post up here will be "Hare Ribbin"

I don't really care said...

It's this stuff that makes him such a real living character that made him last another 15 years or so with lesser work and depth.

Yeah, and it's probably after this period that the Bugs formulas that Clampett supposedly "misunderstood" were settled into.

When I look at Scribner's Bugs in freeze frame, it looks almost too modern for its time, like it's from a Bugs cartoon from a future that never was. In real time it just looks more fun and energetic than the other animators.

John a said...

Just taking a wild guess--- "Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt"--the film shown in the cheater-- was directed by Friz and nominated for an academy award (Friz probably lorded this over the other guys at the time)The joke is that it doesn't win in this cartoon either.

stiff said...

I tried to freeze frame the clip to check out some of the wilder takes (of course, a DVD would be much better for that sorta thing...ahem...), but I was most impressed by the take at the end because of how quickly he goes from calm to realization to shock to anger to embarrassment. Even more impressive than the speed of all that is how well it all reads, even at full speed. I caught every single emotion in the half second of the take without even realizing I caught them, or even thinking about how difficult it would be for me to do the same thing. Hell, I can't even animate a character losing his balance right (although now that I'm aware of the concept of line of action, I might be able to do that better in the future).

P.S. That was my first-ever try at quasi-full animation, so while I'd gladly accept any criticism on my blog or wherever, please keep that in mind!

Anonymous said...

Well, I'd love to hear the Friz story, but what about the McKimson "loud-mouthed-shnook" theory you promised some posts ago?

Supreme Cat said...

I know the story.

By showing a clip of Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt, Clampett is making fun of Freleng... didn'tcha know?

Anonymous said...

What are the visual indicators in this one that allow you to tell where it switches from McKimson to Scribner then back again?

Also, could you go more in-depth into the animation "cheats" you discuss? I think it'd be interesting (and informative) to not only show and dissect great animation, but to talk about techniques and mistakes that make for bad animation.

And I think everyone wants to hear the story.

john a said...

A quick perusal of the titles that were released between 1940 and 1945 is all the evidence that you need to conclude that Clampett's Bugs from this period is a much more fully realised character than anything the other directors were doing with Bugs during these same years. Freling and Jones were clearly still trying to figure the character out.

Nico said...

I would love to hear the story.

Also, I never noticed about the McKimson and Scribner switcheroo that takes place in the same shot! Now that you mentioned it, and I watch it, I can definately see it. very cool. You have the most informative cartoon site on the net John. Thanks!

john a said...

I didn't mention this in the earlier clip so I'll mention it here--the subtle little extras in Bug's animation make this film a classic. Notice during the scene with Bugs at the table imitating the other celebrities. After he finishes up his Bing Crosby imitation with a surprise "burp"
--he makes a quick "pardon me", but watch his hands--he's clearly imitating Curly from the 3 Stooges.

Anonymous said...

Actually, Jones had figured out Bugs as early as Clampett had. Even as early as "Case of the Missing Hare" Jones had his version of the character in place (and a great cartoon at that).

I don't really care said...

I just noticed that in that pose before the clip starts, his elbows are so far forward that if you tried it, you would dislocate your shoulders... they almost look like they are on backwards, but you understand the pose much better that way.

JohnK said...

>>I know the story.

By showing a clip of Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt, Clampett is making fun of Freleng... didn'tcha know?<<

That's part of it.

Compare the animation in the Friz cartoon that Henry Binder nominated for the academy award to the animation in Clampett's cartoon.

That's the irony of it all.

It really bugged Clampett that really crummy cartoons would win awards when his didn't.

Even though it didn't win anyway.

JohnK said...

>>Actually, Jones had figured out Bugs as early as Clampett had. Even as early as "Case of the Missing Hare" Jones had his version of the character in place (and a great cartoon at that).<<

Well I would say that cartoon is a very unconfident portrayal of Bugs, and sloppily animated too-with slow timing.

There are some funny jokes in it, but it's nowhere near as confident or rich as the Clampett Bugs cartoons.

Anonymous said...

But Clampett hailed "Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt" as an excellent cartoon I read in an interview.

And Tom & Jerry beat out Clampett at the Oscars quite a few times and those aren't crummy by any stretch of the imagination.

(Funny how Clampett was the only long-term director never to be nominated for an Oscar... Even McKimson did it in his first year!)

JohnK said...

>>
And Tom & Jerry beat out Clampett at the Oscars quite a few times and those aren't crummy by any stretch of the imagination.<<

They are well animated but not very inspired.

The history of the Acvademy awards is to always leave out the best films. I treid to tell that to Bob.

Neither Bob nor Tex ever got Academy awards.

They seemed to be given out according to who made the weakest cartoons.

Disney 8 million awards
Bill and Joe 7 awards
Friz 5
Chuck 3 (for his worst films)
Bob none
Tex none

Jackie Gleason never got an emmy.
Paul Dini has at least 5.

Kirk Douglas never won an oscar.

Jesse Oliver said...

Clampett making fun of Friz! Sounds funny. Let here about it John!

Brett W. Thompson said...

Man, I keep looking for these cartoons on the Looney Tunes DVDs but so few of them are on there, hah :)

I don't mind buying these VHS tapes though, thanks for the links... I got the "The Golden Age of Looney Tunes, volume 4" tape a while back; that's got some good cartoons on it :) I showed it to two of my closest friends and they agreed that "Book Revue" was hilarious and crazy and delightful... there's this one part where Daffy's munching on his own arm and talking/singing superfast, heh!

Anyway, as always John, thank you for your posts :)

Any more animation lessons in the future? I'm almost satisfied with my lesson 1 work, heh, so I have a ways to go, but still :)

Jesse Oliver said...

Hey John

Why is it that the coolest cartoon makers never won any awards for there work.?

"Red Hot Riding Hood" should have won something!

john a said...

Regarding Jones'"Case of the Missing Hare" released in '42: while a nice cartoon, it doesn't even come close to Clampett's "Bugs Bunny Gets the Boid", released earlier that same year.

Jesse Oliver said...

John

You should have won an award for Ren & Stimpy!

JohnK said...

>>Man, I keep looking for these cartoons on the Looney Tunes DVDs but so few of them are on there, hah :)

I don't mind buying these VHS tapes though, thanks for the links...<<

Hey Brett,

the cartoons look better on the VHS tapes anyway and you don't have to sit through menus and disclaimers.

Jesse Oliver said...

The WB cartoons that I want to find on VHS are the following

1. "Elmer's Pet Rabbit" Chuck Jones

2. "Hare Ribbin" Bob Clampett

JohnK said...

>>
You should have won an award for Ren & Stimpy!<<

I won lots of awards for it, but not an emmy.

I actually worry. If I won one, I'd be in the company of a lot of bad cartoons...

Jesse Oliver said...

What kind of awards did you win for R & S?

JohnK said...

>>

What kind of awards did you win for R & S? <<

Annie awards and some other weird certificate type of awards.

Jesse Oliver said...

Hey John

If Clampett won an award for any of his WB cartoons which cartoon would you say deserved one?

stiff said...

I gotta say I've never been impressed with the Academy's selections for much of anything, the last round of Oscars being a prime example: I never saw Brokeback Mountain, but I can confidently say that Crash was a pretentious load of crap. I think it goes back to that "entertainment spectrum" theory (not necessarily for Crash, but definitely for the directors/Oscars that John mentioned); most people don't want to be challenged by entertainment.

I don't really care said...

(Funny how Clampett was the only long-term director never to be nominated for an Oscar...)

Maybe it indicates that more staid intellects see all that extra work and energy in a Clampett cartoon and interpret it as brashness and "overdoing it". Maybe they just have slow eyeballs. But I too think it gets back to the "entertainment spectrum" idea. I'm just glad he ended up at Warner's, where he was free to spectrum his ass off.

JohnK said...

>>If Clampett won an award for any of his WB cartoons which cartoon would you say deserved one?<<

Coal Black
Great Piggy Bank Robbery
Baby Bottleneck
Kitty Kornered
Hep Cat
The Big Snooze
Henpecked Duck
Russian Rhapsody

there are lots more that are worthy of top honors

Jesse Oliver said...

Hey John

You forgot to add "Grewsome Twosome"!

Brett W. Thompson said...

>>
Hey Brett,

the cartoons look better on the VHS tapes anyway and you don't have to sit through menus and disclaimers.<<

Cool, yeah :) None of the DVNR crap on VHS either, right, and you know, those menus and disclaimers drive me nuts! So sure, I like Whoopi Goldberg all right, but goddamn, when I put in the DVD I want to see the cartoons, you know?? :) I remember yelling at the screen at that surprise.

To chime in on the Oscars discussion, I didn't really dig "The Son and the Moon" like I thought I would. It was loooong and didn't have very much real animation. Ugh. There were lots of animated shorts I enjoyed way more.

Also: what are some of your favorites of Tex's MGM cartoons, John? I watched "Little 'Tinker" recently and thought some of the movement was hilarious (there's this gangly female rabbit at 2:50 that cracks me up).

I've got more questions but I've already written too much, probably :)

P.C. Unfunny said...

"Disney 8 million awards"


Is that rough estimate John ? LOL


"Jackie Gleason never got an emmy."

A shame since he invented the classic sitcom formula still being used,horribly,today. I think Jackie Gleason's only award was a Tony, no small feat but he should have had got many emmys for his unforgettable contributions to TV.

Ryan G. said...

Bill Plympton has 2 oscar nominations under his belt.. I think he deserves a statue.

william wray said...

They seemed to be given out according to who made the weakest cartoons.

Disney 8 million awards
Bill and Joe 7 awards
Friz 5
Chuck 3 (for his worst films)
Bob none
Tex none

Jackie Gleason never got an emmy.
Paul Dini has at least 5.

Kirk Douglas never won an oscar.

Thanks for the biggest laugh of the day. Nice try on the links on the VHS's, but those are from private dealers right? No $ for WB. I bet they would like to figure out how to put a stop to those sales.

Brad Caslor said...

Hi John,
In answer to your question in a previous post, I got out of animation years ago. I now work as a live-action picture editor, mostly on television documentaries, although I did co-edit one independent feature film, Seven Times Lucky. I still love classic animation though, especially Clampett's work. I've been enjoying immensely your analysis of cartoons, especially Clampett's cartoons. I absolutely agree with you that 1942-45 was Clampett's best period, and a high point for American animation. It was very hard to get a hold of cartoons like What's Cookin' Doc?, Kitty Kornered, Coal Black, Tin Pan Alley Cats, etc when I was trying to study them in the early 1980s. There was also almost nothing written about Clampett at that time. My hat's off to you for what you're doing. It's very generous of you to be taking the time to post this stuff and illustrate it with scenes on Youtube. I studied 16 mm prints of a lot of these cartoons obsessively in the early 80s but I still learn things I didn't know every time I read one of your posts, especially about who animated what. It's too bad Youtube is removing the cartoons from their site. As everyone has pointed out, your efforts will only encourage people to buy DVDs of the cartoons, if WB would only release them. I'd buy an all-Clampett DVD collection in a minute. I saw Clampett in 1979 at Reg Hartt's Animafeastival in Toronto and had a chance to ask him a couple of questions at a Q&A session. A very gracious guy. It was the first time I'd had a chance to see a lot of Clampett's work since seeing them occasionally on TV as a kid in the 50s and I was completely floored by how good the cartoons were. Cartoons like Coal Black and Tin Pan Alley Cats became huge influences on my cartoon, Get A Job. Seeing Clampett's work made me realize how little I knew about animation and how little I still know. You've inherited Clampett's mantle with your ground-breaking Ren & Stimpy cartoons and other work. Your stuff is not only hilarious, it has the same wonderfully cartoony appeal that Clampett's work had. Keep up the great work.
Your fan, Brad.

Jesse Oliver said...

Hi Brad Caslor

I love your "Get A Job" cartoon!

What are you doing these days?

I don't really care said...

Hi Brad Caslor, how can we see GET A JOB? is it on VHS or DVD?

Brett W. Thompson said...

Nice comment, Brad! I totally want to see "Get a Job" :)

lastangelman said...

Are Time/Warner still hiring you and Eddie F. for commentaries? My guess is they had YouTube pull "Cuffs" because it is going to be one of their meager From The Vault offerings and want it to be rare and special and only available from them, for a price. Shit, if they started putting their toons individually on iTunes, I'd be emptying my bank account at a $1.99 a shot for some of that hard to get stuff. Now there's a way to promote their forthcoming releases online and make a buck! Who is in charge of organizing and releasing these collections? They should be hiring you and Eddie not as mere consultants or for making commentaries but as running the dang project. Let the rest of the bean counters handle Scooby Doo, Harlem Globetrotters in Space and all that other H-B crap, you and Eddie have atrue love and knowledge of this golden era of cartoons.

Anonymous said...

I don't want to distract from the Clampett discussion but since you asked, Get A Job is a The National Film Board of Canada cartoon. Unfortunately, I don't own it. The NFB site is http://www.nfb.ca/
It's on at least one DVD collection along with The Big Snit, The Cat Came Back, Blackfly and Special Delivery: http://www2.nfb.ca/boutique/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=13882
(Brad Caslor ... the comment field keeps flipping to Anonymous)

J.D.P said...

Personally I think that 'Tin Pan Alley Cats' should be on that Clampett list. When he's getting sent'outta this world' I get chills.

p.s. scorsese has never won an oscar. speilburg has atleast five hundred thousand. roughly.

Shawn said...

Thanks for the Amazon links! I've been wishing to find that Bugs cartoon for years! That's my favorite design of Bugs Bunny.

On all the Looney Tunes DVDs, they have the documentaries with a million clips from that cartoon (probably to demonstrate the genious of Bugs Bugs Bunny or Bob Clampett), but they won't release the actual cartoon itself. That doesn't make any sense to me!

John's right, the VHS is better. I wish people who were actually smart would pick the cartoons to put on those DVD sets. I bet most of the people here just can't wait to see all those Speedy Gonzales cartoons that are going to be on the next set (*heavy sarcasm*).

Shawn said...

Hey John, ever seen what those idiots did to your favorite characters to make "Loonatics"??! Clampett's probably rolling in his grave right now.

Hammerson said...

>>(Funny how Clampett was the only long-term director never to be nominated for an Oscar... Even McKimson did it in his first year!)<<

It's shocking that Clampett never even got an nomination. Avery was nominated couple of times I think, but he also never won the award.
What was the procedure of the Oscar nomination for cartoons back in the '40s and '50s? Did every studio select just several cartoons that could qualify for the possible nomination, or the entire year's output was equally considered by the Academy members?
Academy Award is often a joke anyway. Just think about it, Ron Howard (!?!) won an Oscar for the best director, while Kubrick, Scorsese, Welles, Hitchcock, Howard Hawks and Fritz Lang never received one.

Ben Chamberlin said...

I'd definitely be interested in hearing the story. I love it when people poke fun at one another in the subtext.

lastangelman said...

John K wrote:
I don't know anyone alive that could do anything this perfect.

Jessica Borutski, perhaps? She's young, talented and could probably figure how to it out of sheer determination and love of the art.

R said...

"Jackie Gleason never got an emmy.
Paul Dini has at least 5."

HAR! I take it yer not a fan of 'Duck Dodgers' John? I don't blame you...

-R

P.C. Unfunny said...

"Hey John, ever seen what those idiots did to your favorite characters to make "Loonatics"??! Clampett's probably rolling in his grave right now."

And Jones, and Avery, and Tashlin, And Freleng, and Davis,and many other people of the TT.The WB just dosen't care. Oh well, I hope this new Looney Tunes DTV is as good as I heard.

Brian Romero said...

Great scene!

What's this VHS thing you speak of? Is that how people watch movies at home in the 80's or something?

;-)

Anonymous said...

Jerry Beck picks out the cartoons put on the sets. If he's not smart, I don't have any interest in what your definition of smart is.

P.C. Unfunny said...

"Jerry Beck picks out the cartoons put on the sets. If he's not smart, I don't have any interest in what your definition of smart is."

He dose ?

JohnK said...

>>Jerry Beck picks out the cartoons put on the sets.<<

I doubt it's his selection alone.

All that Tweety and late 50s stuff might have something to do with the WB merchandising dep. or marketing or something, because the selections aren't very good.

P.C. Unfunny said...

"I doubt it's his selection alone.

All that Tweety and late 50s stuff might have something to do with the WB merchandising dep. or marketing or something, because the selections aren't very good."

What I have scene it's mostly Jones or Freleng on the discs. On the LTGC vol 3, there is not one Clampett cartoon on the Bugs disc. Even in the video montage on the "all star cartoon" disc on volume 3 with Clampett toons, they are mostly from Jones toons and only one un-flatterng moment of Daffy in "Drafty Daffy". The WB is really giving Clampett the short end of the stick.

Franky said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Franky said...

What I really wish WB would do is put out the cartoons chronologically. I feel like I'm missing so much stuff in these collections.

And we're so overdue for a Tex Avery MGM collection.

I honestly can;t stand VHS - they wear out and break. It IS possible to put out a DVD that doesn't sacrifice the quality of the original source material. It's just up to the people putting together the DVD.

Anonymous said...

This case of defaming every person in the name of God Clampett is the most retarded thing I've ever seen.

Eddie Fitzgerald said...

Brad Caslor!? Wow! I'm a big fan of yours! Thanks for "Get a Job" and for the interesting comments on Clampett!

Eddie F.

Anonymous said...

You kid yourself when you place Paul Dini in any kind of bad company, as anyone who has seen 'Joker's Favor' or 'Harley and Ivy' [both are on youtube] can easily tell you [besides, one of the Emmy's he won was for Lost... how can anyone doubt the greatness of Lost!?] It seems petty to claim that anyone who won an award is bad. On the other hand, I say that 'For Scentimental Reasons' and 'The Dot and the Line' are among Jones' greatest. It seems like sour grapes to make an entire cartoon to get back at a colleague... [Also Disney cartoons to Bob Clampett is what Rembrandt is to 'Katzjammer Kids'. Both are masters of thier medium, but don't expect the Katzjammer Kids to get more respect. That said, Disney cartoons are more timeless.]

Anonymous said...

I don't think WB is going to make any money from used videocasette sales...

Gabriel said...

How is it that the painting people knew where to paint the white parts on Bugs? They're not outlined! The same for shading.
I'm not kidding, I really want to know this, if someone can answer me I bet he/she is reading this. How is it done? Are the outlines colored later, or erased, or what?

Kevin W. Martinez said...

"What I have scene it's mostly Jones or Freleng on the discs. On the LTGC vol 3, there is not one Clampett cartoon on the Bugs disc. Even in the video montage on the "all star cartoon" disc on volume 3 with Clampett toons, they are mostly from Jones toons and only one un-flatterng moment of Daffy in "Drafty Daffy". The WB is really giving Clampett the short end of the stick."

The thing is, Clampett didn't direct as many cartoons as Freleng or Jones to begin with (and the majority of his cartoons are Black-and-White Porkys), and there are supposedly 10 LT DVD sets planned, so i'd imagine we'll see more Clampett on future volumes.

Also, 19 Clampett Cartoons (out of 82(?)) are currently part of the Golden Collections, that's a pretty respectable number, especially when compared to the showings of Tex Avery (7 Cartoons out of 61).

Anonymous said...

Wait a second... PAUL DINI DOESN'T HAVE A SINGLE EMMY! Check imdb! Besides, weird things don't win Emmy's, took The Simpsons five years even, and no Adult Swim show has yet gotten one...

Kevin W. Martinez said...

Also, Clampett Made only 13 Cartoons With Bugs, of which 6 have surfaced on the GC DVD's (Wabbit Twouble, The Big Snooze, A Corny Concerto, Bugs Bunny Gets the Boid, Falling Hare, and Tortoise Wins By a Hare). Only Seven Clampett/Bugs Cartoons are currently not part of the GCs
(Patient Porky, Any Bonds Today?, The Wacky Wabbit, Hare Ribbin', What's Cookin', Doc?, Buckaroo Bugs, and The Old Grey Hare), and that will probably change with Volume 4

BrianB said...

Now that's frickin directing. Toss the acting award to Mckimson, and then when he absolutely loses it toss the scene to Scribner, and back to Bugs when he regains composure. Awesome stuff.

Jorge Garrido said...

Let's hear that story. I bet Bob was being sarcasticwhen the clip from Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt was shown as one of his "best scenes" and as a way to show why Bugs lost the award. (Plus to serve as a contrast between primitive Friz Bugs and refined Bob Bugs.

>Freling and Jones were clearly still trying to figure the character out.

Freleng never was comfortable wiht him until he started ihm wiht Yosemite. He hated Elmer. Jones said he dind't understand him until Super Rabbit.

>Jackie Gleason never got an emmy.
Paul Dini has at least 5.

Uh, oh.

John k never won an Oscar either. :O

>All that Tweety and late 50s stuff might have something to do with the WB merchandising dep. or marketing or something, because the selections aren't very good.

They's releasing ALL of them over 10 sets so they otta space them out, John.

P.C. unfunny said...

Yeah, That's true Kevin. Calmpett didn't make as mnay toons as Freleng or Jones.I still feel though the WB was keeping a lid on Clampett toons in the video montages, look at the one in the porky disc as well. Also, no Clampett Bugs on the Bugs disc of LTGC 3.

Anonymous said...

Hey John!

You're pretty good, but why can't you draw more like this?

JohnK said...

>>It seems like sour grapes to make an entire cartoon to get back at a colleague... <<

Friz made one too. "You Ought To Be In Pictures". He did it before Bob did it back, so I guess they're even.

It's his best cartoon in my opinion.

JohnK said...

Oh, and Chuck made one too. "The Dot and The Line"

about the difference between Chuck and Bob creative types.

Jeremiah said...

Was the dispute between Chuck and Bob mostly creative, or personal?

And was it mutual?

Aaron said...

i want to hear how he was poking fun at friz!

Julián höek said...

>>Oh, and Chuck made one too. "The Dot and The Line<<

did jones admit that or is your opinion??

Dr.Awkward said...

Hey Jorge,

Type slower and more carefully next time. Too many mistakes!

And "I Don't Really Care", PLEASE don't bring up politics again. It was already upsetting enough that my posts were deleted in the last thread, because it was all "spur of the moment", and I don't memorize everything I write. You probably didn't even get a chance to see them.

All I want to talk about from now on is cartoons.

Anonymous said...

Well Clampett is getting his own disc on a future set, so I'm sure John K. will be all over that.

Roberto González said...

Humm...John seems to dislike What's Opera, Doc? I'm not parroting the critics here, I like other Jones' shorts more, but I have always thought that was a very good one as well.

Yeah, You Ought To Be In Pictures is one of the best Friz cartoons, I wouldn't say it's THE BEST, but it's next to.

I also consider the Clampett cartoons you mentioned as some of his best ones. Book Review should have won the Oscar too.

The selection of the DVDs is pretty weird, but they are including more Clampett than I was expecting. In fact, I can see there are Clampett cartoons in USA videotapes as you posted them, but in Spain they NEVER included Clampett in videotapes. Well, I think they did, once, or twice. But during a lot of years they only included Jones, Friz and McKimnson.

John a said...

Gabriel: Concerning Bug's color deliniation:Bugs was hand inked with a black outline by inkers that were tracing over the animators cleaned up artwork. Special notations would be written or indicated on the cleanups where a cel would be inked with a colored line. This would also be done to indicate white inked areason characters that are primarily black like Daffy, Pepe le Pew, and Slyvester. If you ever get to see a real production cel close up, you'll see the different colored inks.(some places also use a colored grease pencil because not all colored inks dry opaque.) Nowadays, with digital inkinking, you can assign a different color(or even a different line weight) to an inside line,or you could make the outline transparent.Hope that helps.

Anonymous said...

Really? I thought 'Dot and Line' was anti hippy? Eh... still rocks though.

Also I hear 'You Oughta be in Pictures' [my favorite Friz too actually, tied with 'A Hare grows in Brooklyn'] was suppoused to be an apology to Schleshinger for leaving for MGM.. hmm..

fabiopower said...

Congratulations, every time is more difficult to me to translate this site to the Spanish language...
But there is no doubt that in this site I learn too much!

JohnK said...

>>Also I hear 'You Oughta be in Pictures' [my favorite Friz too actually, tied with 'A Hare grows in Brooklyn'] was suppoused to be an apology to Schleshinger for leaving for MGM.. hmm..<<

It is. Porky is Friz. Daffy is Bob.

sajdera said...

This case of defaming every person in the name of God Clampett is the most retarded thing I've ever seen.

It is a little weird. I suppose it's all relative to super-animators of the past, but...

Anonymous said...

"The Dot and the Line" was originally a book by Norton Juster and was adapted word for word.

xtracrsP said...

"Kirk Douglas never won an oscar."

He did, the 'lifetime achievemnt' thing. Yeah I know, it's not exactly the same thing.

I don't really care said...

Disney cartoons to Bob Clampett is what Rembrandt is to 'Katzjammer Kids'. Both are masters of thier medium, but don't expect the Katzjammer Kids to get more respect. That said, Disney cartoons are more timeless.

Shouldn't a GOOD cartoon be more like the Katzenjammers than like an OIL PAINTING? If I want to laugh, I'll take Rudolph Dirks before Disney or Rembrandt ANY day. IF I want to marvel at technical achievment I'll watch CLOCK CLEANERS, but if I want to marvel at funny animation, I'll watch Clampett. Is Disney more timeless? How do you measure that?

This case of defaming every person in the name of God Clampett is the most retarded thing I've ever seen.

There is a difference between defamation and critical analysis.

And "I Don't Really Care", PLEASE don't bring up politics again.

Didn't bring it up. Responded to somebody else who brought it up. Never mentioned autism. Was another guy. Let's move on.

John Park said...

Hey John K. et all,
If you'd like to do me a kindness you could check out the cartoon I just finished and tell me what you think about it.

Just copy and paste the link if you can!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00IfEB0ayJA

fanx!

JohnK said...

>>

Disney cartoons to Bob Clampett is what Rembrandt is to 'Katzjammer Kids'.<<

Disney is Kitsch. Pure and simple.

The Warners animators are much better and more human.

Anonymous said...

>>>The Warners animators are much better and more human.<<<

Definitley. But Disney is very good in its own right. Not as good as Warners but still very good.

Anonymous said...

John, Theres been a couple of things bugging me. #1, I love Bob Clampett and he was great. Warner Bros & Termite Terrace was incredible, but what about the future of catoons and directors? When I read your bloggs this is what I hear, "Clampett, hate Freleng, & ME!" Yes John, you are GOOD! You have a good direction, but you are not really a good mentor for some. For you to be bashing shows like the Simpsons, Family Guy etc, is just stupid. Yeah the animation is not as great as Termite Terrace (which is sad) but the story and writing is. You shouldent be hating as much, and just study off this. You would probley be back on cable if you would pay attention to this and be more successful. 2 stupid Pussies is a funny idea, but is too X-Rated. Same with Wally Man. If your doing more X-Rated cartoons thats just going to set you up for getting fired again. I like how you teach about animation on this website about Looney Tunes though, don't stop doing that. But go be a director, bring Spumco back up on it's feet again! Dont sit here on the computer as much-go direct! Go Animate! The world needs more mentors John, weither you like it or not-you are one to alot of people. Yes John, the 1930's and 40's was a great time period for animation but guess what John? Thats not our time period-now is OUR time period. What if Clampett said to you, "Hey John your time period sucks now give it up-nothing will ever be good again!" Would this have encouraged you?? Who was Bob Clampetts mentor? What encouraged him? Thank God his mentors didnt act like this to him, because their probley wouldent be a Termite Terrace. And this hatred could lead to 2D animators going to 3D which would be VERY horrible. Another thing, you are REN HOEK. Bitter towards the world, "it should have been me, it should have been ME!!" Well I'm sorry John but it's NOT. I'm sure you did get ripped-off on the Ren & Stimpy rights though which is not cool, because I hate when artist get ripped-off. My point is this, pay attention to OUR future of cartoons John. Teach us the old style of animation but god-dammit be current. Thanks for hearing me out.

I don't really care said...

But Disney is very good in its own right. Not as good as Warners but still very good.

We can all see for ourselves what sorts of things Disney is good at, but can you find me a Disney character with a soul? Mostly they just have some kind of pantomime-derived schtick, and that's about it.

Dr.Awkward said...

I hope Jorge read my post.

JohnK said...

Here is some story advice:

>>the animation is not as great as Termite Terrace (which is sad) but the story and writing is. You shouldent be hating as much, and just study off this. You would probley be back on cable if<<

BrianB said...

Is it really fair to Friz to toss all the blame on his shoulders? What about his writers and animators? He obviously never had anyone the quality of Scribner, Mckimson, or even Manny Gould.

JohnK said...

Hey, let's get back on topic...

this is about the animation I posted.

I'll tell you more about the backstory in the next post about the cartoon

take a look at all the principles in the animation-line of action, construction, clear silhouettes etc...

this is a great scene to copy the drawings from to improve your own!

Anonymous said...

Of course Disney wasn't the funniest, and its humor was more in the Cosby Show sense than the Seinfeld sense, but like the Cosby show it expressed the joy of living. Cartoons serve all purpouses, and like all great art forms its meaning comes from the viewers. That said, the Katzjammer Kids aren't very good... ah Krazy Kat, now you I adore... [Actually, I have to say, some of the modernistic cartoons are better than so many of the Looney Tunes I've seen! 'How to Gamble', 'Der Feuherer's Face', the one where Goofy skis... all of the brilliant! And trust me, all of them with soul... after all lest we forget that Disney was the first man to create actual toon abstraction, even in the sickly morbid Steamboat Willie [or is it Willy] we can see it...]

Craig D said...

On Topic? OK...

I've always loved this cartoon and the points you raise go a long ways toward explaining WHY!

There's lots and lots and lots of stuff going on and there isn't a wasted or gratuitous motion. Even putting down and picking up the carrot to bracket the "monster" walk is in service to the action. A minor thing, but it could have been 'way over-done or clunky.

This sort of stuff is what I like about your blog. As always, thanks for sharing!

Eric C. said...

YES JOHN, TELL US!!!!!!!!

MORE FUNNY STORIES ABOUT BOB CLAMPETT AND PRANK STORIES TOO!!!!!

Eric C. said...

It seems that the animation production prosses is more complicated compared to this generation (including the useage of computers)

Sketch said...

Re: Definatley, I never knew that WB artists riffed or each other.

***VERY INTERESTING FACT! - This cartoon was made by Clampett to poke fun at Friz. Anyone know or want to know the story in a later post?

Nick Sweet said...

Did Clampett pose out the scene?

JohnK said...

>>Did Clampett pose out the scene?<<

There's no way of knowing.

My guess is he posed out the more exaggerated stuff, but I'm not sure.

He used to do rough "energy" sketches for his animators, but said he would just act out the scenes physically for McKimson.

I don't really care said...

'How to Gamble', 'Der Feuherer's Face', the one where Goofy skis... all of the brilliant! And trust me, all of them with soul...

Just watched 'Der Fuehrer's Face'
on youtube,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDWF8hznHZs

but I don't see anything in Donald that comes close to expressing as much about the brain inside the character as is evident in this Bugs clip. Nor are the extremes or takes nearly as compelling or effective. Bugs is doing way more things to let you know who he is as a specific personality. Donald is more of a generic everyman victim in the shape of a familiar duck. And all the other characters are just moving like baloons filled with whipped cream again, even though the charicatures are okay. I'm not slamming it. It's kind of fun to watch. I like the swastika fire hydrant.

after all lest we forget that Disney was the first man to create actual toon abstraction, even in the sickly morbid Steamboat Willie [or is it Willy] we can see it..

Not sure I know what you mean, but if I do, the honor probably goes to Otto Messmer.

Frankie said...

I could go for a story about any cartoon you want to tell! Even if you know about some of those awfull later Droopy cartoons with the insane music.

Do you have any stories to tell on the Loony Tunes made later on? like in the 60's and such, I know there were a few made, like one about Daffy Duck and a horse, sorry that is so vague.

Eric C. said...

Hey John,

How do you get Ideas for your cartoons?

And How did Bob get his ideas?

_Eric

Anonymous said...

Oops! I was talking to Kevin & Jorge, too! Perhaps moreso than Dr. Suck-ward!

Anonymous said...

P.S.- "I Don't Really Care" is the man!

stiff said...

Hey John,

I think somebody else mentioned this earlier in this post, but I wanted to reiterate, especially since you're trying to redirect the conversation to the clip. You mention animation "cheats", but I don't exactly understand how some of the things you mention are cheating. I know from experience that it's hard (as hell) to animate small changes in a character that still read, so I can see that extra squash and stretch might be a cop-out, and you've shown us all about meaningless head bobs, etc. from the end of Rabbit Punch. BUT, as far as avoidance of clear poses and drastic overshoots, I'm not exactly sure I understand what you mean. I think it'd be extremely informative/helpful if you could show us some examples (at some point in the future) of "cheats." Or, perhaps if you explained in a little more detail how the poses in this clip are so clear, that'd be a great start.

Spizzerinktum said...

How do you get Ideas for your cartoons?

Anyone who asks this sort of question should seriously reconsider whether or not they themselves are even the teeniest, tiniest bit creative.

Stiff,

I just watched your little frying pan guy cartoon, and I think it's terrific. Make more!

Ollie said...

>>Jackie Gleason never got an emmy.
Paul Dini has at least 5.<<

John, you don't like Paul Dini? Why not?

-Ollie

stiff said...

Spizz,

I've made a couple more of that same character (they're better than the frying pan one, though simpler, and still not as good as I'd like), but I haven't taken the time to put them on my website yet. Maybe I'll do that tonight and put a link on my blog.

But thanks for the positive feedback!

JohnK said...

>>John, you don't like Paul Dini? Why not?<<

He's a nice guy, sure. But Emmys for Tiny Toons, Animaniacs and not for Clampett Looney Tunes?

It's the awards I disagree with, not Paul.

If someone gave me an award for The Smurfs it wouldn't bother me if someone else thought that was unfair. I'd be the first to agree.

JohnK said...

>>Even if you know about some of those awfull later Droopy cartoons with the insane music.<<

You mean like "Disco Droopy" and the other ones I worked on??

I'm horribly offended!

No, I worked on lots of awful cartoons.

Dave_the_Turnip said...

I'm looking at a lot of freezes in this scene and there's some great wild takes and subtle acting but i have a question relating to line of action. I know the line is meant to flow through the body but in some freezes, i find it hard to determine which leg it's flowing through. Is it the leg where the character has put the most weight or is it just keeping that curved flow?

JohnK said...

Hi Stiff,

>>You mention animation "cheats", but I don't exactly understand how some of the things you mention are cheating.<<

Yeah, I'll get to it soon. It's hard to cover everything there is to say about animation, past present and future...

Modern animated movies are full of animation "cheats"-stock moves that you have seen a million times in other animated features. Formula expressions, moves, poses and timings that are used to fool you into thinking you are watching full animation.

They make it seem smooth but have no meaning other than that.

We were watching Madagascar the other day and it was full of cheat moves. Moves that don't convey a specific original custom made meaning or emotion.

They just keep the stuff bouncing around all over the screen to make you think you are getting your money's worth.

They learn them all at Cal Arts.

junior said...

John, tell more of the crap you had to work on until you could do cool cartoons. I hope you're not embarassed, maybe you'll give hope to some of us!

Roberto González said...

You should live in Spain, John;) Animaniacs is a wondefull show for animation standards here and even a good show for saturday morning cartoon standards...

I have read interviews of you talking about the flaws in Tiny Toons. I agree with you. However, it sure was better than the horrible Hanna-Barbera stuff we had to go through before that. Yeah, you did it much better with Ren and Stimpy (and before that probably in Mighty Mouse, but I haven't seen much of that show), but I think it's important that the big studios tried to be a little more cartoony. At least I was a little tiny bit more entertained when I was a kid.

Maybe you are so passionate that when a thing is not so bad you say it sucks and when a thing is bad you say something worse. It's ok, I guess. Somebody has to say it.

JohnK said...

>>I have read interviews of you talking about the flaws in Tiny Toons. I agree with you. However, it sure was better than the horrible Hanna-Barbera stuff we had to go through before that. Yeah, you did it much better with Ren and Stimpy (and before that probably in Mighty Mouse, but I haven't seen much of that show), but I think it's important that the big studios tried to be a little more cartoony. At least I was a little tiny bit more entertained when I was a kid.
<<

I'm not the only one who says it. Many of the cartoonists who worked on it say it too.

The cartoonists don't think it's cartoony and had no say in the creativity. Well they did for a month or 2 until the "writers" came in.

tim kelly said...

You mean like "Disco Droopy" and the other ones I worked on??

I'm horribly offended!

No, I worked on lots of awful cartoons.


John, my eyes popped out of my head because you named that particular cartoon. For years, I've wondered who animated that long line of female animals, cheering Slick Wolf and Droopy. They're too well-drawn for a 1980 TV cartoon! Also, how did the Wolf get the name Slick in the Filmation series? The Filmation book claims it was an in-house gag by one of the storyboard artists. And regarding the Filmation Mighty Mouse cartoons, there's one called "Movie House Mouse" where Oil Can Harry does an incredibly wild take (especially for 1979), screaming at Swifty, who proceeds to melt down a wall! Any idea who drew that? As with the girls in Disco Droopy, it's just too good for a TV cartoon.

Roberto González said...

Talking about the clip, I watched it with my mind put in modern animation. Yeah, it would probably bounce a lot more done by today animators. For example when Bugs moves his leg to one side of the screen, stretching it, and then it comes the rest of his body, it's very fluid and he doesn't do any extra movement.

I think I'm going to rewatch some "modern" Bugs Bunny (like Looney Tunes: Back In Action) to detect the cheats.

I am not very technical cause I'm always distracted by the stories in the cartoons. I usually prefer to watch the gags again instead of freeze framing. However I have watched enough cartoons and I kind of detect the cheats, but I can't explain them. I noticed Madagascar was very tricky, but I couldn't explain where the tricks were.

Clinton said...

Was this a prelude to the Looney Tunes' own version of the Oscars a decade or so later? Chuck Jones directed it, and the "movie" was full of shorts edited together.

This cartoon was made by Clampett to poke fun at Friz. Anyone know or want to know the story in a later post?

Yes, John! Please share!

Ollie said...

>>JohnK said...
He's a nice guy, sure. But Emmys for Tiny Toons, Animaniacs and not for Clampett Looney Tunes?

It's the awards I disagree with, not Paul.<<

Right, sorry John, you're absolutely right. I didn't know Paul worked on those shows, I haven't seen them since I was a kid. But yeah, when you compare those shows with Looney Tunes I totally agree with you.

I thought you were talking about Batman the animated series. Paul's episodes are some of the best.

-Ollie

The Butcher said...

John!

Will you ever do a post about all the unnecessary head shaking in Disney acting?

Stephen Worth said...

Just for the record, John has won four Annie Awards... Individual Achievement For Creative Supervision (Ren & Stimpy), Best Short (Bjork: I Miss You), Best Interactive Production (The Goddamn George Liquor Program) and Best Commercial (Old Navy: Big Pockets/Flares). Altruists and Naked Beach Frenzy will be eligible for entry in this year's Annies in the direct to video category.

See ya
Steve

Julián höek said...

hi john. what do you think about the private SNAFU shorts. i've only seen the one done by clampett "booby traps" and it was funny. does it worth to get the rest of them??
thanks!

JohnK said...

>>hi john. what do you think about the private SNAFU shorts. <<

I like them a lot. The Hook cartoons for the navy too.

Have you seen "Fighting Tools"?

Chuck Jones did at least a couple Snafus with topless girls in them.

You should definitely get a complete collection!

Kevin Langley said...

I like them a lot. The Hook cartoons for the navy too.

Have you seen "Fighting Tools"?

Chuck Jones did at least a couple Snafus with topless girls in them.

You should definitely get a complete collection!


John did some great commentary for Hook-Tokyo Woes and Private SNAFU-Booby Traps on the Cartoons For Victory DVD. It's worth picking up.
I was fortunate to get my hands on all if not most of the Private SNAFU shorts, I was surprised at how many were made.

Anonymous said...

"He's a nice guy, sure. But Emmys for Tiny Toons, Animaniacs and not for Clampett Looney Tunes?"

Yes, because Clampett's Looney Tunes theatrical shorts made a decade before TV even started wouldn't have been eligible for Emmy awards.
Silly comparison, don't you think?

Jesse Oliver said...

Hey John

Do you still think that directing a cartoon is only 10% creative?

P.C. Unfunny said...

"I think I'm going to rewatch some "modern" Bugs Bunny (like Looney Tunes: Back In Action) to detect the cheats."

Roberto it isn't worth burning your eyes, don't watch that crap. Watch " Blooper Bunny !" instead.

P.C. Unfunny said...

"I'm not the only one who says it. Many of the cartoonists who worked on it say it too."


There was was one guy at Spumco who actually complimented Tiny Toons, dose he still work for you ? I don't even think I even have to give a name.

Anonymous said...

When do we get a post explaining why Disney toons are for phags?

stiff said...

John, thanks for that reply, it did clear things up a bit for me. I really appreciate you going out of your way to offer this stuff.

In case anybody besides Spizz was interested, I put more of my animations up. There's a link from my blog here. Any criticism is welcome--and I mean real criticism (John too -- please!). Tell me why they suck and how to fix them. Cuz they do mostly suck.

JohnK said...

>>
There was was one guy at Spumco who actually complimented Tiny Toons<<

I doubt it was a cartoonist.

Jesse Oliver said...

Hi John

It would still be awesome if WB made an ALL Bob Clampett Looney Tunes DVD collection. It would also be cool if it would include the banned cartoons like "Coal Black" and "Tin Pan Alley Cats". If this DVD was possible you and Eddie should do Audio Commentaries. Last year I bought an american copy of the alstalion Tex Avery MGM DVD Collection. If I only had an ALL Clampett DVD Collection then my cartoon collection would be complete. Well I would of corse still need to buy the Ren & Stimpy Lost Episodes DVD. Let all hope and pray for an ALL Clampett DVD!

Jesse

P.C. Unfunny said...

"I doubt it was a cartoonist."

His name was Chris Savino, a layout artist. He complimented Tiny Toons because they were getting less dialogue heavy and more visual in the later episodes, the reason being Ren and Stimpy.

"Warner Bros -- they're putting out some pretty good stuff... Warner Bros is kinda following suit in some of their visual antics with the Tiny Toons. Tiny Toons used to be really dialogue heavy and then the writers saw what was going on with Spumco, because the animation field is really close-knit and if you work with somebody at one studio, you're bound to work with them somewhere else and everybody knows each other. So when they saw Ren and Stimpy, they were like ``oh wow, let's try this'' so they got their writers to do it this way and there is a lot more visual goings on."

I found this at Jamie Weiman's two part post on Tiny Toons on her blog.Dose this ring a bell ?

JohnK said...

>>His name was Chris Savino, a layout artist.<<

He never worked at Spumco.

He was an 18 year old intern for a couple months before Nickelodeon took over Ren and Stimpy. He went with them.

P.C. Unfunny said...

"He never worked at Spumco.

He was an 18 year old intern for a couple months before Nickelodeon took over Ren and Stimpy. He went with them."

Oh,so he was just a intern.

Stephen Worth said...

oh wow, let's try this'' so they got their writers to do it this way and there is a lot more visual goings on

This line alone should tell you that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Writers can't "write" visuals. They can only write words. It takes an artist to create visual gags.

See ya
Steve

David Germain said...

Well, I already have Bugs Bunny Superstar so yes I've seen What's Cooking, Doc? many many times.

Although, I could have sworn that some of Virgil Ross' work was in that clip. (He did animate for Clampett before going over to Friz). Or maybe not. Since much of this cartoon is taken up with stock live action footage of Hollywood and clips from Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt it's possible that only Robert McKimson and Rod Scribner would have worked on this cartoon.

I don't really care said...

>>His name was Chris Savino, a layout artist.<<

He never worked at Spumco.

He was an 18 year old intern for a couple months before Nickelodeon took over Ren and Stimpy. He went with them.


Found this interview for what it's worth. Pretty long.

>>This line alone should tell you that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Writers can't "write" visuals. They can only write words. It takes an artist to create visual gags.<<

In fairness to the guy, he also says, "People have to realize that a writer has to be an artist in the animation field, and a writer can't just be a writer, or you're going to have a bad cartoon."

I'm not convinced that the payoff of this phlosophy is really evident in DEXTER'S LAB, however, which he went on to direct a season or two of.

Anonymous said...

On the front cover of Ren and Stimpy Show Seasons Three and a Half-ish, who did that drawing of Stimpy? That's my favorite out of all of the Stimpy Drawings for the DVD Covers.

Adam said...

Hey John, can you tell us all about Bob Clampett making this cartoon to make fun of Friz?

gir said...

Come on John, tell us the story of Bob making fun of Friz. Also, can you do a post comparing Clampett's and Jones' Daffy? That would be interesting.

>>wonder how long this one will stay up?<<

Perhaps you could start posting on dailymotion.com like Thad K did on his blog? They're not getting rid of LT cartoons there.

David Germain said...

Also, since we're talking about Robert McKimson's work, it would also be a good idea to talk about him on my latest blogpost. ;)

JohnK said...

>>
Although, I could have sworn that some of Virgil Ross' work was in that clip. <<

Yeah, that's possible too. He did some good work for Bob.

Razzmatazz said...

Hey Pals!
New blog animation!

http://kinetoscopioblog.blogspot.com/

Dr.Awkward said...

>> You should live in Spain, John;) Animaniacs is a wondefull show for animation standards here and even a good show for saturday morning cartoon standards... <<

Are you kidding? That show is an utter disgrace to the to the word "cartoon"! That piece of shit is against EVERYTHING real cartoonists like John stand for!

Here is a response post to someone ELSE who actually liked that shit, from the thread on Wally Man's Girlfriend:

"Holy shit.... Someone actually praised Anamaniacs as being a halfway decent cartoon. Now, I think I truly have witnessed the end of our entire civilization before my eyes with a comment like that.
Holy lord in heaven.
Wow...
hell YES any credibility that person had went out the window. It not only went out the window but flew down the street and got flushed down like a turd in the toliet of horribly misguided and uninformed opinions.
Animanaics? Good lord. The continued existance of that show was a complete mockery to Warner Brothers and their entire legacy. Is was a mere insult and an embarassing ugly bloodstained, blotch of absoute dog crap to any of the animators of the golden age and anything they might have produced from 1920-1959.
I cannot even beging to fathom how anyone could even say such a ludricrous thing with a straight face, or without bursting into laughter and say "I'm just kidding"
Anamaniacs.. was a TERRIBLE, UNREDEEMABLE show, written... not drawn... by cartoon writers, not animators. It was not concieved by animators and it none of the fun, charm, quailty, nor evoked anything even remotely pleasant from the age of good cartoons that passed by. This show only disgraced those memories.
It was revised history of their entire legacy, retooled for the sensibilities of 8 year old children who couldn't possibly know any better than to believe for a single second that cartoons in the golden age were anywhere near that level of total crap.
Anyone who actually watched that mess and bothered to even spew the terribly misguided belief that this was anything but an insult to WB, with a straight face, has absoutly Zero credibility, and should, quite honestly be very very VERY VERY VERY ashamed of themselves for the rest of their lives.
Sorry but that's just the way it is."

See? The truth has a ring to it! SOMEONE has to tell it like it is!

Thiago said...

Whhaaaaaaa!!! John K. Blog!!! Stimpy's Cartoon Show it's one of my fav cartoons of all time!
Sorry for the off-topic but what was that line about Walter Lantz (...son of a truck driver...).
Take a look at my drawings, when you have some time:

http://fotolog.terra.com.br/thiagomachado

Tkz!!!

Anonymous said...

I like Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, and LOVE Pinky and the Brain. Art is in the eye of the beholder, and I'll behold it like so. Its not 'Batman: TAS' or 'The Simpsons', but it was good..! This isn't 'He-Man'...

Roberto González said...

Dr. Akward: And I thought John K. was passionate...Just compare it to the other saturday morning shows, I think there are LOTS of worse ones. The fact that this one mentioned Warner Bros doesn't automatically turn it into devil's work. I love WB classic cartoons but it's not like a religion for me. There are much worse "homages" as well, did anybody watch that show called The Wacky World Of Tex Avery? Now, that was bad. There are a lot of cartoons with crappy animation in tv, there are a lot with crappier stories. There are a lot that don't even have gags at all. Animaniacs has gags, even if some of them are overexplained and others are copy/pasted from WB classic shorts. This changed a little with Cartoon Network Cartoon Cartoons but some years later there are a good bunch of mediocre shows in that channel too. And some of the originally good ones went downhill, like the Powerpuff Girls.

I reckon its limits and I know there's a much better way to make cartoons. But even if I have some level of exigence when it comes to declare one thing brilliant I have no problem admitting some things are watchable. I'd rather watch Animaniacs than Scooby Doo, Captain Caveman and stuff like that, that's for sure.

I know I didn't convince you, but at least I expect not to be declared as a tasteless individual just because I can sit through some shows.

I have read Paul Dini talking about Tiny Toons as well. He's not very happy with the results. I think the staff in Animaniacs is a little more happy. And they are all definitely proud of Batman The Animated Series.That's exactly how I feel about the three series. Batman was the truly good one. Animaniacs had its moments. Tiny Toons was enjoyable mostly for kids.

Incidentally I don't know exactly how they worked in Batman, but I think they used scripts and it totally works for me. I think the script writers were mostly artists but they did write an script, I believe...

max ward said...

Hey John,

What cartoon, Bugs or not, do you think has the most subtle human acting in it?

And do you think Bugs' acting is more human in What's Cookn' Doc? or in Falling Hare?

Roberto González said...

Erm...when I mentioned Paul Dini, I wanted to say Bruce Timm in fact.

JohnK said...

>>What cartoon, Bugs or not, do you think has the most subtle human acting in it?

And do you think Bugs' acting is more human in What's Cookn' Doc? or in Falling Hare?<<

There are many, including some Chuck Jones cartoons. I will eventually get to them all.

I think maybe Falling Hare is one of the best examples.

Hare Ribbin' has some great acting too and I will post some this week.

Brian Goss said...

Great clip, John!

I truly appreciate the time you're taking to teach us - breaking down the scenes and giving us a lot of inside info.

Julián höek said...

thanks john. i've have allready seen tokyo woes and it's amazing. i don't remember it you post it here or it was in other blog but i keep seen all this stuff done for dis guy i've never notices about that it really blowing my mind!!
keep up showing us clampett 'couse it's all coming togather for me now!!

Jeremiah said...

I think what bothers a lot of people about Animaniacs is the squandered potential. I always found it frustrating to watch.

I appreciate the argument that cartoons should be written by animators, and Animaniacs is a good case for that. But it seems to me that any form of screenwriting is a writer attempting to convey a visual experience. One major difference is that in film the director has control in the end, whereas in most animation (as I understand it) that control is inexplicably shifted to the writers. It's backwards and nonsensical, I agree. But theoretically (and I'm paraphrasing David Mamet) even a blind person can write for the screen as long as they can imagine.

But I'm really talking about two different mediums, animation being (in my opinion) the purest filmmaking.

Sorry. Off topic.

I don't really care said...

I think the staff in Animaniacs is a little more happy. And they are all definitely proud of Batman The Animated Series.That's exactly how I feel about the three series. Batman was the truly good one. Animaniacs had its moments.

I can recognize that Animaniacs is better than something worse, but for me it's just not watchable. Batman is watchable and even enjoyable for its atmosphere, action and deco influence, but why are the character performances wooden, or even missing? Why do they decide that part doesn't matter?

I think Warner's has the resources to do much better, but for whatever reason, there is no will.

Anonymous said...

I think Batman: TAS was one of the greatest pieces of film to ever grace television... but thats just me...

Ted said...

It would be diffucult to keep a cogent story in an episode of a show like BTAS without a script. But the episodes were also given detailed storyboards. You can see examples of the storyboards in the great Batman: Animated book (along with a bunch of drawings by Spumcoey Lynne Naylor).

I've got an almost complete storyboard of the episode "The Laughing Fish". The credits on the storyboard are "Written by Paul Dini" for the overall ep, then for storyboards Act I: roughs: Larry Houston and Bruce Timm, cleanups: Ronnie Del Carmen and Glen Murakami. Act II roughs: Bruce Timm, clean ups: Glen Murakami, Dan Riba, Jeff Snow. Act III storyboards: Bruce Timm.

The cover page lists Timm as the director, Timm and Houston as the storyboarders, and Radomski and Timm as executive producers.

I'd like to see Dini's underlying script for the ep...

JohnK said...

Why are we talking about Batman?

This is a blog about cartoons.

Ted said...

Because an analysis of the process of a non-cartoony piece of animation that people find to be well done might be instructive when comparing it to the process of cartoony animation that people feel is well done?

scot said...

On the recommendation of you and many other fans on the board, I decided to check out the Image Entertainment "Beany and Cecil" DVD; talk about a shockingly fantastic DVD. Its one thing to advertise "Beany and Cecil" episodes, which on their own are awesome, but the sheer amount extras on the set are just amazing; the lost material is just facinating as is the commentary.

Connecting the DVD with the material you are currently presenting, it is rather interesting how many unconventional animation "cheats" Clampett utilized to work around the limited budgets of television such as: puppetry, mixing puppetry and background cells, superposing madeup human heads to celluloid bodies, 70's era strobe effects, and classic still-frame narration.

Its rather interesting that Clampett's television budget-friendly "cheats" present a very rich experience for the viewer.

JohnK said...

>>Because an analysis of the process of a non-cartoony piece of animation that people find to be well done might be instructive when comparing it to the process of cartoony animation<<

Maybe someone should start a blog called "Flat and Stifftoons" for that?

Anonymous said...

Yeesh, Batman isn't flat and stiff. Its just a cartoon which is better because the characters don't stretch and squash like so many jello molds... ['The Batman' is a bit more abstract and suffers from it. Not too much more abstract, but more cartoony... and annoying...]

Dr.Awkward said...

>> I like Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, and LOVE Pinky and the Brain. Art is in the eye of the beholder, and I'll behold it like so. Its not 'Batman: TAS' or 'The Simpsons', but it was good..! This isn't 'He-Man'... <<

Tiny Toons isn't much different than Animaniacs in my opinion, and Pinky & The Brain is a spin-off. Put two and two together!
Batman isn't a cartoon, it's an "animated comic book", so therefore doesn't even count.
The Simpsons hasn't been worth watching for over a decade now!

>> Dr. Akward: And I thought John K. was passionate...Just compare it to the other saturday morning shows, I think there are LOTS of worse ones. The fact that this one mentioned Warner Bros doesn't automatically turn it into devil's work. I love WB classic cartoons but it's not like a religion for me. There are much worse "homages" as well, did anybody watch that show called The Wacky World Of Tex Avery? Now, that was bad. There are a lot of cartoons with crappy animation in tv, there are a lot with crappier stories. There are a lot that don't even have gags at all. Animaniacs has gags, even if some of them are overexplained and others are copy/pasted from WB classic shorts. This changed a little with Cartoon Network Cartoon Cartoons but some years later there are a good bunch of mediocre shows in that channel too. And some of the originally good ones went downhill, like the Powerpuff Girls.
I reckon its limits and I know there's a much better way to make cartoons. But even if I have some level of exigence when it comes to declare one thing brilliant I have no problem admitting some things are watchable. I'd rather watch Animaniacs than Scooby Doo, Captain Caveman and stuff like that, that's for sure.
I know I didn't convince you, but at least I expect not to be declared as a tasteless individual just because I can sit through some shows.
I have read Paul Dini talking about Tiny Toons as well. He's not very happy with the results. I think the staff in Animaniacs is a little more happy. And they are all definitely proud of Batman The Animated Series.That's exactly how I feel about the three series. Batman was the truly good one. Animaniacs had its moments. Tiny Toons was enjoyable mostly for kids.
Incidentally I don't know exactly how they worked in Batman, but I think they used scripts and it totally works for me. I think the script writers were mostly artists but they did write an script, I believe... <<

I'm sorry, but I believe Animaniacs is even worse than all of the shows you just mentioned!

Anonymous said...

Why is there so much hatred on this blog!? And I say the Simpsons hasn't been worth watching for... three years, but it still has some choice moments.

Animation IS animation, so an animated comic book IS what it is... [besides, Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, the joker in that is sublime!]

Roberto González said...

Ted dijo...
Because an analysis of the process of a non-cartoony piece of animation that people find to be well done might be instructive when comparing it to the process of cartoony animation that people feel is well done?

Good Answer! I mean, question! I mean rethoric question! I don't even like superheroe stuff (I have never read a superheroe comic in my life) but I like the Batman series. Of course it would be better if we had both the stories in those series and Felischer's Superman animation, but I think BTAS is ok for what is worth.

Well, I will talk about cartoons now. I've just watched Russian Rapshody in youtube. I've never watched that one before and I search for it since John k mentioned it. It was very funny, I like all the Gremlins. Too bad the resolution is not good enough to see their faces perfectly. Have this one a chance to be included in dvds eventually?

max ward said...

Do you also like the kind of cartoon acting that is completely exaggerated and could only be done by cartoon characters?

What are some examples of that kind of acting in cartoons and are you ever going to create a post about exaggerated cartoon acting?

Ted said...

No, I'd think Flat and Stifftoons is the production company behind the Popeye and Olive Oyl Tijuana bibles...

JohnK said...

>>

Do you also like the kind of cartoon acting that is completely exaggerated and could only be done by cartoon characters? <<

Yeah, I promise. I've been showing mainly McKimson stuff because so many critics of Clampett say he's too wild all the time and I wanted to prove that he is both wild and extremely subtle.

I did do posts about Scribner's animation in Great Piggy Bank Robbery-where Daffy's pupils change shape and size and his beak bends and changes all over the place.

Did you see those?

Jaime J. Weinman said...

I've always assumed that the WB cartoons that won or were nominated for Oscars tended to be the ones that WB was counting on to launch a series. "Tweety Pie," "For Scent-imental Reasons" and "Speedy Gonzales" are all examples of cartoons that were made as "pilots" for new series (taking previously-existing characters and giving them a new format that would then be repeated for years), and they all won Oscars. I think WB gave these cartoons more promotion -- because they were launching what promised to be successful series -- and that's why they won.

As for why Clampett cartoons didn't get nominated, that might have something to do with the fact that before 1945 WB didn't produce the cartoons in-house (Schlesinger was semi-independent), so they didn't get the institutional studio support. Hence few nominations for WB cartoons at all, not just Saint Clampett's. After WB bought out Schlesinger, the number of nominations for WB cartoons starts to increase, probably because the studio was throwing support behind the cartoons -- but Clampett was almost out the door by that time.

And on a side note, it warms my heart to see the "Animaniacs" argument alive and well after all these years. So I will repeat that Animaniacs was great and a segment like "The Monkey Song" still has the kind of inventiveness and imagination that few TV cartoons can match.

max ward said...

>>I did do posts about Scribner's animation in Great Piggy Bank Robbery-where Daffy's pupils change shape and size and his beak bends and changes all over the place.

Did you see those?<<

Yeah I did. I've freeze framed through those too. Every time I see those I can't help smiling, every frame is completely different from each other. That kind of acting very subtly makes Daffy seem much more looney.

Anonymous said...

"I'm sorry, but I believe Animaniacs is even worse than all of the shows you just mentioned!"

Well, why watch it, or why bring it up? To disagree with someone who likes it, or is there a specific point?
Because now you're simply getting into "what I like versus what YOU like/"good=this "bad"=that" and unfortunately, friend, that's what's called "subjective" no matter how many examples you give of why you don't like it.

I thought the topic was a specific example of vintage great cartoon acting. It doesn't get better in comparison to today's work-it doesn't NEED comparison to anything besides what else was made at the same time. Cartoons of the early 90s, including Ren and Stimpy are a whole other ball of wax.

Or do you really want to start talking about "The Wacky World of Tex Avery"? The people involved in that were the most passionate Spumco people you could find.

I don't really care said...

Why is there so much hatred on this blog!? And I say the Simpsons hasn't been worth watching for... three years, but it still has some choice moments.

Yeah but think about it. A choice moment on the Simpsons consists of either an voice actor reading a funny line, or some rudimentary animation of a funny situation --but it's the situation itself you are laughing at, not the animation. The animation itself is about as stimlating as the assembly diagrams you get with a table from IKEA. In other words, a sight gag on the Simpsons is merely the INSTRUCTIONS to a joke.

Hey, watch anything you like. That's what I do, including the Simpsons.

When I talk about what is lacking in other cartoons, it is not just hate. My purpose is to point out what is missing so that you might begin to think it's missing too. Then, maybe you won't be so quick to excuse entertainment which is lacking vital components, just because what remains is still entertaining. That way, perhaps we can all become more discriminating and more demanding in what we appreciate, and will begin to insist on being given better quality.

John's purpose, I believe, is similar, but I think primarily he is trying educate and encourage aspiring artists in the methods and ideas that make better, more entertaining animation possible.

IF the audience appreciates and demands better animation, and the animators are ready, willing, and able to provide it, THEN maybe we can get it more regularly, instead of once in a lifetime.

Anonymous said...

I disagree that the Simpsons' drawings are IKEA like. Its an R. Crumb comic with motion, the brilliance lies in the picture [watch an 'animation commentary' on the DVD and one sees what I mean], and the movement means something too. THey move more like real people. Its the speed, the timing, the angle, the subtelty. When I mean hatred, I mean, for example, there isn't a lot of discussion [this was discussion] but ALOT of emotion. Example: all things that win awards are bad. Not an examination of award politics, just emotion.

Jaime J. Weinman said...

"The Simpsons" had some great animation the first few seasons. Particularly the scenes that Brad Bird personally laid out (he loved to draw the key poses for Krusty the Klown). As time went on, and particularly after Bird left, it got more standardized.

Roberto González said...

Jaime J. Newman, I find your blog pretty interesting.

I don't really care, I know this doesn't happens very often in The Simpsons, but in Homer's Triple Bypass when Homer had various hearth attacks in Burns' office I laugh at the animation, not the situation. There are some other examples, but this is an obvious one.

JohnK said...

>>brilliance lies in the picture [watch an 'animation commentary' on the DVD and one sees what I mean], and the movement means something too. THey move more like real people.<<

Not in the least. Even the artists and timers on the show will tell you that. Or at least they tell me. Maybe they wouldn't admit it in public.

Anonymous said...

I believe the passionate commentaries more than someone else's own words... still, I like what I see. Its not Filmation, or 'Ewoks'... its funny brilliant pictures, in the style of Life in Hell or Zap Comix, or Rocky and Bullwinkle. R+B is no Disney masterpiece, but any other animation would ruin it... [heheheh... cukecumber...]

That said, I'm refering to seasons 1-12. The last four seemed derivative for the most part. But one through 12 the animation was genuine [for example, 'Itchy and Scratchy and Marge', when Homer gets hit with the hammer. Its more Hitchock or Lang than Clampett and Disney, and honestly it works. Oh so well. It pretty much changed the entire American culture...]

Anonymous said...

OH YES-- the bypass is ingenious. I love David Silverman's stuff, its... hilarious. And Homer falling down the cliff in the clip show [they never showed him falling down the cliff in the actual episode] is always in my mind, a realistic coyote fall.

I don't really care said...

but in Homer's Triple Bypass when Homer had various hearth attacks in Burns' office I laugh at the animation, not the situation. There are some other examples, but this is an obvious one.

I'm not saying any of these shows don't have something, I'm saying that they don't routinely have enough. Demand more, and maybe you will get it.

Robert Hume said...

Hey John, I don't want to get off subject...but as far as great animation goes(wether it be subtle or way out there wild stuff)have you ever seen anything even HALF decent done in 3d that would qualify for one of the two...

...and if not, do you think it's possible, or would you even CARE to see it done? I hate 3d, but my current employer has me learning to animate in it anyways...

Robert Hume said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Robert Hume said...

I mean in theory that scene could be reproduced in 3d and would have all the silhouettes, great lines of action, and even the cartoony movement to some degree...but it would cost a fortune and would take forever to do! That and I doubt you could get the 3d models to move and look organic in the way the cartoon drawings capture it.
I'm sorry, I love the animation clip but, I'm trying to relate the knowledge to 3d seeing how I'm stuck in the crappy medium for the moment. :(

P.C. Unfunny said...

Yo Jamie, I love your blog and thanks for showing up.

Jorge Garrido said...

OFF TOPIC COMMENT (I'll comment on the clip when I can see it):
>Kirk Douglas never won an oscar

There's still time!

>Friz made one too. "You Ought To Be In Pictures". He did it before Bob did it back, so I guess they're even.

Yeah, Friz quit WB to go to MGM but he hated it so he came back to Leon. If Porky=Friz and Daffy=Bob I wonder who Leon is? ;)

> Oh, and Chuck made one too. "The Dot and The Line"
about the difference between Chuck and Bob creative types.

No, John, that was actually directed by Maurice Noble and it was based on a children's book. In "Fresh Airedale", Shep is Bob, the master is Leon, the cat is Chuck.

>but I think it's important that the big studios tried to be a little more cartoony.

Copying Mighty Mouse and using their artists, from what I've heard. Every show, including Sonic The Hedgehog and A Pup Named Scooby Doo copied Mighty Mouse.

>Sorry for the off-topic but what was that line about Walter Lantz (...son of a truck driver...).

It was just showing Wilber Cobb's senility.

>And on a side note, it warms my heart to see the "Animaniacs" argument alive and well after all these years. So I will repeat that Animaniacs was great and a segment like "The Monkey Song" still has the kind of inventiveness and imagination that few TV cartoons can match.

Jaime I love your writings... but...come on. Are you serious? How can you like Animaniacs?

>"The Simpsons" had some great animation the first few seasons. Particularly the scenes that Brad Bird personally laid out (he loved to draw the key poses for Krusty the Klown). As time went on, and particularly after Bird left, it got more standardized.

PLEASE. The animation used to be better but it was never good, only better than the boring crap it became. It used to be a LITTLE cartoony but even the Tracey Ullman shorts were crude. There was never a balance between crude and standardized, it was one of the other.

>>His name was Chris Savino, a layout artist<<

>He never worked at Spumco. He was an 18 year old intern for a couple months before Nickelodeon took over Ren and Stimpy. He went with them.

How could he worked for Ren & Stimpy but not for Spumco? I don't get it, I though R&S aired on Nick first. As far as I know he's the only cartooninst (he's NOT a writer) who's ever had good things to say about Tiny Toons.

In the interview with him he mentions you directly and compliments you. He directed a Genndy Tartakovsky produced Flintstones movie a few years ago that was based soley on the first season of the Flintstones, the designs were like an off-model caricature of Ed Benedict's style and it looked kind of liek your drawings. Apparently it was REALLY good, I never saw it because it didn't do so well but I really want to see it! Did you ever see "Flintstones On The Rocks", John?

>Yeah, that's possible too. He did some good work for Bob.

Well, who didn't?

>You should definitely get a complete collection!

They should release one!

> There are much worse "homages" as well, did anybody watch that show called The Wacky World Of Tex Avery?

I've heard of that show but never seen it, what the hell was that? I know Eddie Ftiz worked on it.

Anonymous said...

[to the response guy] I like what the Simpsons does, and sometimes it recycles animation, but 98% of poses in seasons 1-12 [or 2-12 depending on who you ask] are ingenious, plus there is plenty of the ingenious. Besides, if you want a certain type of animation... GET TO IT! [inspiring work music plays. animators lift giant pencils with cranes. A happy cartoons cries a single tear]

Jorge Garrido said...

I got it to work!

When Bugs is trying to figure out why he lost, he keeps stuttering and restarting his sentences so his hands keep doing teh same gesture but each one is slightly different and lasts for a different amount of time (not like a FRIZ cartoon, right, John?) It's Sabotagie, he says, point his fingers in accusation!

I love how when he yells "STOP!!!!" he throws himself into the camera, desperate for attention. His face goes from worried to mad when he stretches back.

When Bugs sees his Stag Reel, he turns into a blur of colour for a split second! No, not smear aniamtion, it's just blur! He's desperate to cover up the entire screen so nobody can see his hardcore pronography! Then he goes into a shy, innocnet pose, crossing his legs and doing that homosexual hand gesture thing and he smoothly slides back towards the stage (his leg is rubber)

He does so because he drew attention to himself when yelling about the Stag Reel so he's trying too hard to seem smooth and unperturbed. He doesn't want to call attention to imself so he chooses to move back in a little motion as possible. Bugs is embarassed.

More pointing out the obvious and over-analysis to come!

Dr.Awkward said...

>> Well, why watch it, or why bring it up? To disagree with someone who likes it, or is there a specific point?
Because now you're simply getting into "what I like versus what YOU like/"good=this "bad"=that" and unfortunately, friend, that's what's called "subjective" no matter how many examples you give of why you don't like it. <<

I don't routinely; I watched it ONCE, when I was younger. Even then, I was embarassed by it. It was actually worse than Tiny Toons, which was pretty crummy itself. It made my stomach queasy!
You see, Stephen Spielberg's movies all seem to have poor acting, even ones that were otherwise "good". His cartoons are the same way: they all have the same sappy, dialogue-driven humor, which isn't very innovative and doesn't even USE much funny verbal jokes and clever wordplay. His characters are either the crazy, messy, dopey, clumsy, annoying, happy, softhearted, youthful, free-spirited, dissenting, amateur follower-type, or the serious, organized, knowledgable, articulate, grumpy, angry, mean-spirited, old, stern, control-freak, experienced leader-type.

>> I like what the Simpsons does, and sometimes it recycles animation, but 98% of poses in seasons 1-12 [or 2-12 depending on who you ask] are ingenious, plus there is plenty of the ingenious. <<

I wish I knew how to respond to that, but I couldn't make out what the hell you just said.

>> He's desperate to cover up the entire screen so nobody can see his hardcore pronography! <<

Well, actually, it was an inside jab at Friz, but watching Friz is more embarassing than watching pornography!
And what did I say about spelling? If you make a typo, go back and correct it using the delete key and typing in any letter you missed or mixed up!

I don't really care said...

Besides, if you want a certain type of animation... GET TO IT!

That's where promoting awareness comes in. If producers know that you will watch one flat, relatively ineffectual drawing moving its mouth cel for 30 seconds, they have little incentive to bother with more or better.

Anonymous said...

[sigh] Oh Dr. Awkward [if that IS you real name...] I want get into a flame war with your evil arrogant ways, but what I said is the Simpsons has great original poses, and a lot of cartoons.... you clowns... [shakes head in shame]

Anonymous said...

John, what do you think of Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

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