Sunday, September 14, 2008

Updating George To Make Him Hip And Ironic


I've been getting some complaints that my tastes and ideals are too outdated, and that animation needs to constantly evolve.

So Rob Mac has done me a great favor and improved George Liquor for me, bringing him into the modern world of cartoon irony.

I have 5 networks beating down my door already!

Now all he needs is some 'tude and I'm set.

Thanks Rob!

85 comments:

Nico said...

Whoaa, watch out Family Guy! You've got some competition!!!

Zorrilla said...

Sorry son, if you want to work in animation in this Millennium you need more attitude.

But I see some potential, so I'm giving you some pro tips: first of all, draw more hairs. Lots of hairs, individual hairs, eyelashes, etc.

Second, I'd draw a body to the heads. Floating heads are OK but they are way too '2007'.

And finally I'm telling you the ultimate secret of 'tude:

"Draw one eyebrow higher and the other lower."

Simple huh? Kids love it. Moms love it. Grandmas too, everybody does.

Next week I'm telling you about the rule of 3's and how to draw realistic grass blades!

Mattieshoe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tigeroovy said...

It's all well and good to evolve animation, but not if that means neglecting all the things that made animation so beautiful.
Like when it comes to family guy.. it's like a live action show without the budget to do the things they do.
And every time I look at George Liquor's face I start to laugh.

Subject 645-3, a.k.a. John R. Spumkin said...

How's that for a big "F**k you" from John K.?

As George Carlin would say, if they don't like it, f**k 'em.

Corey said...

Seth McFarlane would be proud

oppo said...

Oh John, you're so funny.

rob mac said...

After doing blandizeing surgery on George liquor i decided to have a go and jazz up the face of homer simpson.

After about 25 minutes in photoshop cutting & pasteing
i had the finished picture before me. but I'm not completely
satisfied with the new cartooney homer, line of action is not
completely there, lines still need hierarchy, maybe a change of colours, and not sure about the eyebrows.


img411.imageshack.us/img411/4308/23097906ta6.jpg

mdouglas said...

AHHH! Stop this madness!

Soos said...

You forgot the form-destroying ultra-thick outline.

Zoran Taylor said...

Rob, just go back in time. Homer, sadly, "evolved" into a blandie. The Ullman episodes sometimes had takes right out of "Northwest Hounded Police"!

Josh "Just What the Doctor Ordered" Heisie said...

Definitely an improvement. Finally.

Wicks for Candlesticks said...

Love that!

Funny, but sad to see the terrible degradation of such a great art form.

-David O.

rob mac said...

for anyone whos interested, a
link to homer simpsons visual evolution. 1987-2000s

img246.imageshack.us/img246/5443/12120912om8.jpg

SoleilSmile said...

Haha, very funny. But it just isn't you. I know this is a joke, but Bataki's great voice belongs on the original.

I'm looking forward to seeing George in October.

Frank said...

hilarious : extremely funny

Lucas said...

Like soos said, he forgot the horrid thick outline:

img222.imageshack.us/img222/6137/georgehd4.png

Tom A said...

This reminds me of that one time when I did the robot with Arnold Schwarzenegger!

Michael Turek said...

the eyebrows are a bit too complex as well. Make them more rectangular.

Zoran Taylor said...

Dang, Rob, you've got a point there. How did I miss that? He's just been a walking, talking "Error 404 - Not Found" for 21 years! Now, that IS some stiff design!

Nicol3 said...

Oh yeah, Dumb it down for the kiddies.

Dumb it waaaayyy down.

Roberto González said...

That's hilarious and spot-on!

But I'm not that convinced with the cartoony Homer. About that link to Homer evolution I actually think there is some improvement in the head shape and mouth volume but definitely his eyes were a lot more expressive in the middle drawings. Also the mouth, even with the shape change, should have kept some of the rubber quality.

Shawn said...

Much better!

Honestly John, I seriously don't know what you ever saw in entertainment that has any ounce of personality or creativity to it, or cartoons with any dimension and life whatsoever. This is a real improvement in your artistic skills. Lately I've been getting so sick and tired of you constantly trying to innovate new ideas and create cartoons that are actually good. But now, with this post, I have finally regained all my lost respect for you and your ability to follow the herds...to give America the crap they REALLY want! Now that you--after years and years of much needed practice--have finally perfected George's "look", all you need to do now is ditch those crappy stories you've been working on and find a NEW and EDGY premise for this character. Turn him into a REAL star! Might I suggest making George a goofy, beer-drinking dad, with smart-ass kids, and a wife who makes him feel even dumber than he looks? Now THAT would be an original show! Throw in a deadpan talking dog and you've got pure gold!

I have tears of joy.

Shawn said...

I would also like that add that I hope your blogging also improves from this point. Please, no more posts about Don Martin, Dan Gordon, Harvey Kurtzman, or Bob Clampett. From now on, I don't want to see anything but The Boondocks.

Roberto González said...

I think a cartooney version of Homer should be something more similar to the Ullman shorts, something along these lines:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l287/inspectorholmez/escanear0003.jpg

I made those quite quickly but I believe the main thing to change are the eyes and maybe exaggerate the mouth for expressions.

PCUnfunny said...

"Rob, just go back in time. Homer, sadly, "evolved" into a blandie. The Ullman episodes sometimes had takes right out of "Northwest Hounded Police"!"

Exactly look at this old Simpson short from '87:

Making Faces

Now the average animation of The Simpsons today:

What's a Gym

Clearly, it's a de-evolution.

Mr. Semaj said...

Speaking of Seth MacFarlane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGE34VAqYTk

Does anyone else think he should go directly to fail for his increasingly tiring game of Monotony?

Lord Wingate said...

Stick to your guns John. I've gotten more worthwhile animation education from reading your blog then I ever did while studying in college. I even forward this stuff to my old professors so they can pass it on to students.

Aaron said...

pcfunny, I liked the second one better

Williaint said...

"Draw one eyebrow higher and the other lower."

That's what I was gonna say!

Now just make him more PC-y, add some popular references, and voila!

Tim said...

Oh wow, that is amazing. I laughed and then I puked and then I laughed again

Morris said...

Yikes!

I don't get how anyone could prefer that over the "old-fashioned" method...

Keep at it John, people will wisen up yet!

Mad Max Winston said...

wow, totally weird. And interesting.

LUCAf said...

Hey John, I am a fan of yours from way before Ren and Stimpy ; actually one of the things I was (and still am )nuts about ,and that made me go into the animation buisness, was the video for "Harlem Shuffle"...
Could you tell us a little about it, and ,by any chanse, do you happen to have any of your art work from those days ?
.....my best

J. said...

Seth's animation quality may be generally bad, but I actually like his writting. True, family guy is no longer funny (if it ever was), but American Dad has some great character depth along with overal good jokes (and no more bloody random flashbacks). Unlike Family Guy and the Simpsons, American Dad's characters are not unidimensional assemblements of random actions. They have different personalities and specific ways to act in determined situations, au contraire of characters like homer simpson or peter griffin that just do random stuff according to what the scripters think its funny for the scene.

Though yeah, the animation sucks. Hard. And the latest youtube shorts seem kinda unfunny too.

Roberto González said...

Here is that link to my fast drawings again.

Tim said...

George's 'final form' in this illustration is interesting in that it is painful to look at for too long.

rob mac said...

i've done a bland jimmy to go with the bland george i did.
I call him jimmy Xtreme for xtremely boring bland & unexciting.

img228.imageshack.us/img228/3417/44792285bm0.jpg

Gabriele_Gabba said...

Hahaha!

Am i the only one that hates the word " 'tween " btw? Are people too good for the whole word??

How cheap can we really water things down nowadays? Its not good enough that our cartoons or " TOONS " look bad? Must we now slaughter the english language too?

This really grates my marbles man!

Roberto González said...

>>Speaking of Seth MacFarlane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGE34VAqYTk

Does anyone else think he should go directly to fail for his increasingly tiring game of Monotony?>>

He's like the only one creator that can make a show like that monotone. I mean, if anything, those random sketches should be surprising, but the only things he can offer are popular culture "gags" and neverending unfunny dialogues.

AniKey said...

Hehe Gabriele,

I have an intern (David de Rooij) working for us and he hates tweening so much he refused to finish a shot because he would have had to tween a character for a camera move.

Now thats dedication!

trevor said...

Yuck!

- trevor.

introvert said...

So this is how you build up that "Spumco style" of yours.

Just take the steps you provided and list them in reverse, and you just got yourself a bonafide tutorial on how to take any character design an executive can think of and "translate" it into that flowy fleshy cartoony thing you seem to like doing all the time.

Why didn't you do this to begin with?! You talk and talk about how complicated it's supposed to be, but when you lay it out step by step like that, it's all so simple! Before you know it, every Seth McFarlane out there will be making their own "Spumco-esque" cartoons right along side you! Hell, I'll might just give your tutorial a whirl by seeing how well it can translate the Family Guy character designs into Spumco-brand designs.

Mr. Semaj said...

Seth's animation quality may be generally bad, but I actually like his writting. True, family guy is no longer funny (if it ever was), but American Dad has some great character depth along with overal good jokes (and no more bloody random flashbacks). Unlike Family Guy and the Simpsons, American Dad's characters are not unidimensional assemblements of random actions. They have different personalities and specific ways to act in determined situations, au contraire of characters like homer simpson or peter griffin that just do random stuff according to what the scripters think its funny for the scene.

Though yeah, the animation sucks. Hard. And the latest youtube shorts seem kinda unfunny too.


Exactly.

The sad thing about American Dad is, even though it embodies the substance that made the original FG episodes so appealing, it had from the start been conceived as "Family Guy 2.0", even boasting some of the original FG personnel. This was all before FG's renewal, so even now, no effort is made from Seth or FOX to allow American Dad to function as its own entity.

Zoran Taylor said...

Nice work, Roberto - those are fun!

Jake the Animator said...

Wow. perfect. Now all you got to do is fill the writing with non-sequiter pop-culture references and you're all set.

Vincent Waller said...

Ha! That's high-larious!

Mack Freddie said...

It looks like that crap called "Family guy". Please John Please, I hope you are being sarcastic.

Agent 73 - Emerson Murray said...

John K,
Can you please email me? I am co-hosting a new media podcast, Media Sound Off. We would like to arrange an interview with you regarding your various projects.
My email is on my profile.
Thanks,
Emerson

Chris Rank said...

I can't wait to see "fixed" version of Sody Pop!

John S. said...

I started to laugh, but was then overwhelmed by the urge to cry.

PCUnfunny said...

What character depth does American Dad have ? The cookie cutter Republican or the badly impersonated Paul Lynde Alien ? American Dad is just a VERY depthless example of Seth McFarlanes's one dimensional, "The right is evil" political views. It has no flashbacks, and ? That dosen't mean anything better was added.

Sven Hoek said...

Yeah, George needs some tattoos and a head-band or maybe he could put on a baseball cap backwards and some baggy pants and throw some phony gang signs. His catchphrase could be, "Yo yo yo, where my nephews at?"

John A said...

I really hate it when people write "Family Guy is just like a live action show." Really? Actors just stand in one position and stare at each other reciting unfunny dialogue in a monotone? What shows do that?

I think you're on the right track with this new George design. Just make sure, no matter what he does , he never moves his body, EVER. TV execs believe that even the smallest amount of movement hurts little children's eyes.

k.dubb said...

well... atleast it'll look great as a stamp for elementary school treachers to use on kids' work when they do a good job or to make them stop crying!

Taco Wiz said...

LOL
Soooooo true!

HemlockMan said...

Now all you have to do is change his name to Jack Bacardi.

And you're totally THERE, man!

Gabriele_Gabba said...

Hey AniKey,

I just checked out your blog, you have some pretty work there, looks really fun!

Heck, INBEtweening as an intern sounds like a good place to start! After this year i'm looking to intern and get some job experience and i might be working on some shows like yours.

Although i must confess i have all but stayed away from this instant computer tween morphing thing it tends to come with,

Good luck with your studio!

Guy said...

I really hate it when people write "Family Guy is just like a live action show." Really? Actors just stand in one position and stare at each other reciting unfunny dialogue in a monotone? What shows do that?

It's more that there's no point in drawing it. They should just hire some guys to stand around for a few minutes.

Of course, since most people have no standards at all when it comes to cartoons, that'd make how bad it is much more obvious.

Lippy said...

This may be a great time to tell "My John K story"..

**Warning- LONG Post**

The Ralph Bakshi Enigma

Back in the late 70's when I was attending high school in Pennsylvania, I saw an ad in the back of "Super 8 Filmmaker" magazine. It was a call for "animators wanted" and I could not contain my excitement. With the innocence of youth sugar-coating my expectations, I was convinced that at 17 years old, and with absolutely no animation experience, I could cobble together a suitable portfolio. Bakshi Studios was looking for help on "Lord of the Rings, and was, I guess, desperate enough to put out a general classified ad. I had NO IDEA what a "real" animator did. I only knew that I liked to draw cartoons (especially in class). So I gathered up some older full-page drawings done in blue BALLPOINT pen, drew a couple of new ones, and mailed them off to Ralph in Ca. I remember calling the studio just before I sent off the packet to make sure I had the address and contents correctly labeled. I was so giddy with delight at actually speaking *long distance* to a REAL ANIMATION STUDIO (I was literally giggling at times) that the secretary made fun of me and started giggling along. Of course NOTHING ever came of my pathetic application packet, and in time I forgot about it.
Flash forward 2 years later, and I'm a freshman in a local college and living at HOME with my parents. I was MISERABLE! In order to escape my home life, I retreated one Friday to a local theater (with a HUGE screen) showing an all-night marathon of animation (an EXTREMELY rare occurrence in farm-town Lancaster, Pa.). They were showing “Fritz the Cat”, “Nine Lives of Fritz” (dreadful), and “Heavy Traffic”. Aside from the Police raiding the place around 1:00 AM (lots of pot-smoking) the true highlight for me was watching “Heavy Traffic”. For the first time I could see that there was ANOTHER path to take in animation. Everything DIDN’T have to look like or reference a Disney film, or even be Disney – influenced. I was watching a truly personal expression and it literally changed my life. I saw for the very first time that I could marry my passion for underground comics with my excitement for animation – I could make “dirty” characters live and breathe on the screen. *Whew!*


For this sheltered 19-year-old, that was an epiphany moment.


So now we zip forward again to about 8 years after I had “seen the light”(literally). In the mid 1980’s I was toiling away in the clean-up department at Filmation Studios’ San Fernando Valley feature film unit. Like most of my peers I was fed up with the drivel I was having to work on and word quickly spread among the disgruntled that Bakshi was looking for people on a new, secret project (“Mighty Mouse”). I’d heard a lot about the director that was heading up the project: John Kricfalusi. He was said to be a real hard-ass about drawing. He had no patience for “hacks” that couldn’t render correct volumes and pleasing shapes. In short- if you were going to work for him, you really had to know how to draw. My cubicle-mate reverently relayed war stories about working for John (on “American Tail”?) and having to re-draw the same cleanup drawing 4 or 5 times until he’d finally gotten a whole drawing that “worked”. He specifically mentioned a time that John K. dismissed a clean-up as mere “lines” that did nothing to reference the fact that those lines were supposed to represent clothing, and “Where was the form? Where was the weight?”. These concerns struck me as a refreshingly different outlook on the clean-up process. I was excited to meet this guy, yet felt especially vulnerable about how my own drawings would stand up under such scrutiny.

I made an appointment, and one evening after work I dropped by Bakshi’s small, rented storefront office on Ventura Blvd. I was greeted by John K. who was sitting at a silly little beige metal office desk right by the front door. Lynne Naylor was hunched over a drawing table off to the right working on preliminary storyboards and layouts. Above her head on the wall were a series of inspired character designs and color models. I was immediately impressed. I sat down across the little desk from John who was very accommodating. He immediately started off the interview by firing a lot of questions at me about Filmation and what a dreadful place it was. He had worked in the TV division some years before and was very interested in talking about how it was a depressing tomb where creativity was buried along with their ancient ideas about how animation should be produced. This threw me. I had never encountered a prospective employer who was so denigrating of another place’s work. I could tell that he was checking to see what my attitude towards current animation was. But I was young, naive, and thought that he was trying to trip me up. I wasn’t used to such honesty, and thought John was trying to see if I was a good “company man” and wouldn’t tell tales on a former employer. I thought he’d wanted me to defend Filmation like I would someday defend him after I’d left his employ. What a sap I was. I was in total agreement with his impressions of Filmation, but I was so locked into my “good employee” role that I found myself defending the very studio I hated and was rushing to separate from. Kricfalusi must have thought I was a complete stooge. In a way I was. Trapped by my own lack of experience, I couldn’t yet see that I was speaking with an exactly like-minded artist. I fumbled my way through the rest of the interview as best I could and was anxious to have him see my artwork.
John looked over my character designs and especially liked the women I had drawn. (I stacked the deck with many busty nudes and cuties..) He asked me to work on some more women designs and bring them back. This was a good sign, and I perked up at the thought that maybe I hadn’t quite sunken all chances of working with Bakshi. I was still mulling over the whole Filmation conversation when John got up to lead me into the back office. That was where I would meet the big man, himself. I picked up my paper coffee cup and was amused to see that my hand was shaking. I was amused that I could still be gripped by the same giddy excitement I had felt some 10 years before as I prepared my very first portfolio for this man.

I stepped cautiously into the office, and there he was. Ralph Bakshi sat behind a big, square-shaped oak desk in an office the size of a moderately large bathroom. His presence overwhelmed me, and I could feel myself starting to become “intoxicated” in a way. Ralph motioned for me to sit down directly in front of his desk, and I did so, placing my coffee on floor to the right of my feet. He wore a white V-necked T-shirt and had a habit of rubbing his middle finger under his left breast in a very cartoon-like fashion. He gave me a rapid-fire description of what the new show was about and described his role as Executive Producer. I was sitting on a small wooden chair trying to concentrate on his words, but my mind was swimming with thoughts about finally meeting my childhood hero, and I debated mentioning how influential his films had been in changing my life. Would I sound like a boot-licker? Was he going to play a similar mind-game to what I perceived Kricfalusi had played on me? My mind was sparking with these static-y, confusing, thoughts as Bakshi asked to see my stuff. I got up to present my stack of drawings to him, and in my anxious state I kicked over my paper coffee cup, and it spilled all over his area rug. I was stunned by my own clumsy stupidity. Ralph immediately diffused my embarrassment, “S’alright, kid. We’re mooovin’ anyway”. I liked that he called me kid. I felt a little better as I laid down the stack of drawings on his desk and carefully walked back to my chair. I was studying his expression for signs of approval, as I looked at the plain white backs of the drawings he was examining. He was vocal. He looked through the pile of drawings and kept repeating, “you’re good, you’ll be hea’h, yeah you’ll be hea’h”. Then he hit upon one very loose drawing of a reclining nude that was extremely stylized with breasts that looked like water balloons. He leaned back from his desk still examining the piece, pushing deep into his leather chair. He let the drawing drop from his face and looked me square in the eye with an almost wistful quality in his voice as he wondered aloud, “what is it about guys and tits?” I was dumbstruck.. I started mentally groping for a suitable explanation when Lynne Naylor piped in from behind me, “well I dunno, I like weenies,”. I hadn’t even noticed that she had entered the room. I was so consumed with Bakshi. Studying every nuance of his body language as he critiqued my work had given me a kind of tunnel vision. My mind was reeling. In a way, I was excited to be having this ribald conversation with my “underground” hero. But overall I was feeling that this conversation was more of the same type I’d just had with Kricfalusi. My inner “editor” was screaming that these are NOT appropriate questions to be asked at a job interview. It seems quaint to me now, but I was totally lost at this point. The interview had started to take such a strange, freeform shape that I could no longer find a familiar path. I started rambling on about the female form, animation in general, and what else I can’t remember. Suddenly as if a switch had been turned off, Ralph ended the interview. “Ok, kid. I like what you got, but that guy out there (he motioned to John K.), HE’s the Director”. Oh. Um, … huh? Now I started to panic. So did that mean I had a job or not?


I don’t even remember leaving Ralph’s office. I was still “processing” that scene when John stood up and reminded me to draw up some female characters and bring them back for him to see. I said that I would, and as I started to leave the offices, an *INCIDENT* occurred which haunts me to this day. Ralph, if you’re reading this, please clarify:

I had my hand on the doorknob, and as I was literally walking out of the Bakshi production offices, Ralph leaned out of the doorway to his office with one hand on the jamb, the other squarely pinning the open door against the wall. He bellowed after me, “Hey Kid! Don’t Starve!” Then he leaned back into his office and disappeared

Time stopped. I think I silently nodded my head then walked out. But WHAT DID HE MEAN ???? Did that mean that I should pursue a clichéd “starving artist” route because I was so fabulously talented? I quickly dashed that thought. Did it mean that I was dressed particularly well that day and Ralph was making fun of my perceived wealth?
(up-to-the-minute middle eighties French designer baggy jeans, red leather capezio shoes, suspenders,… Oy!) . Did it simply mean that it might be a while before they actually ramp-up and start hiring people, so “keep your day job”?
He was motivated enough to get up from his desk and bark this at me with neither a smirk, grin, frown, nor smile on his face. He just …. announced it.


I never DID go back to show John my drawings (I actually drew a few). I was so disillusioned by the “industry” in those days that I left for a career change in Manhattan shortly thereafter.

But, what did Ralph MEAN ????

-Lip

Lohenhart said...

Hi John, Im a ren & stimpy fan, I did this animation pilot, hope you like it: http://www.animacam.tv/ver.php?video=Video_239.flv&idVideo=239

introvert said...

"I really hate it when people write "Family Guy is just like a live action show." Really? Actors just stand in one position and stare at each other reciting unfunny dialogue in a monotone? What shows do that?"

That's the thing though. That's all most people ever see when watching a show. Hell, it's all anyone ever NEEDS to know when it comes to describing the show to others, so why would you expect them to even absorb (much less value) the stuff that lies outside that realm?

Is it all you need to know in order for the show to be entertaining? We can argue that all day long, but if sucess is a benchmark for measuring such a thing, then Seth McFarlane proved that to be the case in spades.

Hell, I'll even admit that I like Seth McFarlane's writing, and that his stuff makes me laugh on good occasion (the longer it drags on, the less there is to laugh about). The best part is that I can take it all in without even bothering my eyes! I can leave them to some other task (like typing up this comment for instance), and even be fully sufficient during my television viewing experience (if you can even call it that anymore. Is there even that much need to emphasize the whole "viewing" aspect?).

Something like Ren & Stimpy can't do that. That stuff is much too focused on 'how' something is happening rather than what is actually happening. Hell most of the stuff doesn't even make sense, but everyone loves it!

It's apparently an outdated approach rooted in the past. But I'll set the record straight, and tell you right now that I absolutely LOVE stuff like that. It's those quirky details taken from life that makes it so much fun to absorb, and I owe everything to John for being able to put what makes it all so great in terms that even a geek like me can understand. (You know how geeks are; we go crazy if we can't figure something out.)

I don't expect everybody to understand though, it's all much too complicated and in-depth for most people to find worth figuring out. Hell, most of the people that are best this kind of stuff don't even think about it! It just flows out of their pencils like they are some kind of divine freak of nature! But it's rather suprising that they have to compete with people using intricate plans and pre-set notions for what constitutes as "entertainment" and actually fail. (or worse, never get the opportunity to try) But I guess that's how the attention-economy works. We all know that's the direction it's gone in over the past few decades.

Brendan M said...

I don't know how anyone can think American Dad has more evolved characters or character plot than Family Guy has.

They're literally the same show except with different characters.

The whole "depth" aspect to it is "This guy is a right wing nut, what would someone like him say?" or "What would a wacky talking fish with an accent do?"

It's boring and I personally think it's much worse than Family Guy, if that's possible.

Mr. Semaj said...

I don't know how anyone can think American Dad has more evolved characters or character plot than Family Guy has.

Maybe because you haven't seen American Dad. (No, promos don't count.) All things considered, it's the ONLY thing Seth has going for him now.

There's lots of stuff I wish would be better in Seth's work, but there's apparently more to it than the airless "SETH MACFARLANE IS A TOTAL HACK" war cry.

LeoBro said...

Great job, Rob Mac. I know it was supposed to be funny but it's also a great way to reinforce everything John's been teaching (in reverse). Great "eye training" for me. It took me a while to find the specific entropy introduced in some of the subtler steps; for example, rounding out the smile curve. But eventually I caught them all.

It does need a final "tude" step, though. Ha!

Weirdo said...

This made me ill. I know you were joking, but TAKE IT AWAY!

Larry Levine said...

I would rather have a romantic romp with the surviving Golden Girls than EVER allow my characters to be 'evolved' into anything resembling this!!!

John, please delete this 'updated' design & lets forget we ever saw it.

Brendan M said...

"Maybe because you haven't seen American Dad. (No, promos don't count.) All things considered, it's the ONLY thing Seth has going for him now.

There's lots of stuff I wish would be better in Seth's work, but there's apparently more to it than the airless "SETH MACFARLANE IS A TOTAL HACK" war cry."

Oh no, I've seen it. I've seen it all too much.

The writing is somehow more poor that Family Guy writing, and the characters are just as flat and lifeless. The mean nothing to me. Family Guy= Talking dog. American Dad= Talking fish with even less personality.

It's just not fun or funny and has no personality. The only thing that could pick up that amount of lag is decent animation, but you know it doesn't have that

PCUnfunny said...

"Maybe because you haven't seen American Dad. (No, promos don't count.) All things considered, it's the ONLY thing Seth has going for him now."


I saw American Dad since the beginning and Brendan is dead right on his observation. It has always been worse then Family Gun ever was.

J. said...

American Dad's characters are simply not unidimensional. They have actual personalities. They say good characters usually write themselves and you can notice that on plot flow of every single American Dad episode. Consequences are are result of rational actions made by the characters that subsequentially respond in their own ways, instead of just doing random stuff for the gags sake, something that as become quite common on every Simpson's season since 2001.

On American Dad, Roger the alien is perhaps the most inconsistent character in the show, since he introduces most of the pop culture element, which is already a Seth MacFarlane autor mark, but Hayley Smith, for example, is a very deep character personality-wise (her actions often contradict her ideals in a very comical manner, i must say), while Stan usually introduces the "moral lesson" component of the show without actually learning anything.

As a classic cartoons fan, like most of you here, I have no shame in admiting American Dad is a good show regardless of how much Family Guy or Seth MacFarlane suck. Sure, the animation is bad, but I find the episode plots to be entertaining enough to compensate for it; its a classic case of concept over graphics. However I also have to admit tha if the animation quality was better, certainly the show would be considerably more funnier. Its just a fact that the family guy styled liveless and static animation really doesnt fit American Dad's rich character background.

If you guys are still sceptic on this, try picturing the characters of American Dad drawn on classic animation principles while still keeping the same character scripts. I think it would be the formula for a truly hilarious show.

PCUnfunny said...

J: Hayley Smith is not complex at all and you really just proved my point with your simple explanation. She is simply fills the role of Stans Wife. Just like Family Guy and everyone else on American Dad, no one has a character. They just do things that the writers think that is funny. You don't have a character at that point, you just have a empty vessel.

Mr. Semaj said...

PC: At least American Dad doesn't sneak annoying bit players (like creepy pedophiles) into every episode.

Also, you obviously haven't seen the show, because Hayley is Stan's DAUGHTER.

Trevor G. said...

If you really want to make him modern I'm afraid you'll have to get rid of those pupils. The ugliest and most modern of all styles, straight out of newgrounds, not animating pupils.

A true child of 'tweening' (automated computer betweens). Now animators are too lazy to animate pupils, forget lip-syncing!

So yah, you get rid of George's pupils there on that last drawing and you'll have kids shitting their pants to see your animation!

Allyn said...

this made me laugh, so funny and toe curling at the same time

PCUnfunny said...

"At least American Dad doesn't sneak annoying bit players (like creepy pedophiles) into every episode."

And in return we get nothing. Equally invalid as the "no flash back" defense.

"Also, you obviously haven't seen the show, because Hayley is Stan's DAUGHTER"

I really don't care. All of the characters are all equally un-distinctive. But since you brought her up, she is simply just the opposite of Stan, the cookie cutter liberal. No personality there either.

Roberto González said...

I haven't watched more than two or three episodes of American Dad but someone told me the writing was quite better in the new shows compared to the first ones. In my own little experience that was true, the newest one I watched was quite funnier than the first one. They also told me that the show got better precisely when Seth McFarlane delegated in other people, isn't that ironic?

Lippy said...

So John,

What did you think of my story?? What did Ralph mean??!?

Peter Bernard said...

no, there's still too much personality left at the end there.

renuvio said...

You're so close, John!

But do you think about the ears?
You MUST draw the ear's center as a number, 3 or 9...

p.maestro said...

man, it's funny how many canadian cartoons look like this. and i can't help but wonder if producers went into an animation school and picked the people who would work for the lowest dollar to start the show... probably not... but...

not to get into a family guy debate, (because i won't be checking posts after mine, this isn't a message board) but i find family guy's later seasons pretty damn funny. i'm not going to try to explain or defend it. but shows like this and the simpsons are essentially moving comic strips. they aren't intended to "stand the test of time" or even impress anyone in any respect. i wouldn't pay money to see family guy, while i might... hmm... yeah, maybe spend money to see a nicely done george liquor cartoon. but if people only watched good tv, listened only to good music, and went out only to good movies, those industries would collapse.

oh and whoever was praising American Dad, what the fuck man? i'd rather sit through goddamn King of the Hill than an episode of that knockoff garbage... "character" my ass...

Mr. Semaj said...

oh and whoever was praising American Dad, what the fuck man? i'd rather sit through goddamn King of the Hill than an episode of that knockoff garbage... "character" my ass...

Like I said, American Dad was conceived as "Family Guy 2.0" from the beginning. It's in that aspect that the show today has the advantage of being more consistent than Family Guy, in part because the show has much of the same producer-writers as the original FG episodes.

It's not impossible for the subsequent show to surpass its predecessor, for American Dad's examples of basic yet controlled character traits are the more satisfying choice compared to today's Family Guy, where there's little regard for who is who anymore, yet the new writing team persistently confuses their post-revival changes as "evolution".

thiago said...

I really dislike this designy type of clothing of modern cartoons, straight and uniform strokes.
Bring back the fun!!!

Dan C said...

Top tip for tude... eyelids lowered to halfway. And arms crossed. Or even better, skateboard in one hand and wearing oversized headphones.
Regarding Family Guy, I really find it funny, (although I'm reaching saturation point of late) but struggle with American Dad because it seems like a slavish formula repeat of Family Guy.
I'm not above laughing at the odd pop culture references in FG (or "Guy", as I believe it is referred to amongst those in the know. Or just "Guh") and although I find a lot of the gags in very bad taste, I groan and move on. I think the show is informed by the kind of stoner humour that appeals to Seth MacFarlane and Seth Green, that is - silly voices, grossout humour, violence and pop culture references. To me, the shows feel like student radio comedy, only with kind of badly drawn pictures alongside to distract the eyes.

The Ralph said...

I just about fell off my chair when I saw this. SPOT. ON. This could easily be the next big Cartoon Newtwork show.

[Moth] said...

I just can say (some moths after the original post) that i've seen FG only the last few months, and just because they air it when there's no better animation (or not) to see on TV. I would never pay, never buy any DVDs, or go to the movies to see it. And I won't cancel any plans to see it, or even search clips on youtube.


But I've paid to get Looney Tunes, Ren & Stimpy and some other great cartoons and enjoy them at any time, no matter what's on TV.

Please, John!! Bring back some cartoons so we can gladly cancel our plans to watch them!!!

(and please.. excuse my english)