Wednesday, August 09, 2006

Animation Magazine Article

about cartoony cartoons:


http://www.animationmagazine.net/article.php?article_id=5759

49 comments:

Ryan G. said...

Thats awesome that you are doing the intro to the Tenatious D movie. I cant wait to see it. Any idea on the release date john?

Freckled Derelict said...

"In fact, all the Disney books are always telling you that in the early days cartoons used all this crazy slapstick and symbolic graphic jokes. The things that make catoons different from any other medium, Disney looks down its nose at and all the critics tend to follow suit."
Ironic isn't it that the books acknowledge how great the cartoony style was but never promoted to continue what they originally loved about cartoons to begin with. Thank god you are championing cartoonyness otherwise it would probably be pushed even further into the animation closet.
Are you showing any Bosko or cole black?
Nice glasses by the way..where did you get them?

Vince Eckert said...

This might be slightly more relevant to the last post, but the idea is to get the message to you irregardless-
My name is Vince, I'm a VES student at Harvard College(It's the arts/film/make stuff major). I think it would probably be one of the more awesome things ever if I could get you to come to Cambridge and give a talk sometime in the next academic year. But what would it take to get you there?
I'm a pretty resourceful sort of guy, so I figure I'll just work backwards from what demands you set.
I'm sure it'd draw a hell of a crowd, I mean, it seems like most of my generation loves/reveres Ren and Stimpy, myself included. Get back to me about it.

max ward said...

A short before the Tenacious D movie. I'm going to see it jsut for that.

Tougi said...

A thought: Nova Scotia isn't that far from you. Alright, you'd have to travel from sea to shining sea, but it's certainly not like a trip to Korea. If you hopped on a plane, do you think Copernicus Studio would allow you to direct animators directly, or are all modern animation houses strictly against reason? I could see some sort of weird business complication preventing the arrangement, but have you ever looked into the idea?

heidi said...

Congratulations. Will you be posting the flash animation you did with Katie? You should go on tour with these shows.

Jesse Oliver said...

Hi John

That was a cool article. You know, I have two of the Wild Cartoon Kingdom magazines. The one with the really cool Ren & Stimpy story and the one where you interviude Mike Judge. It seemed to me that you had fun talking to Mike Judge. I love Beavis & Butthead too. I think R & S and B & B are the COOLEST cartoon shows EVER!

Jesse

Brett W. Thompson said...

Awesome!! :)

I really wish I could be there Thursday...

I'm gonna scan the drawing you did for me (thanks so much again!!) and post it on my blog really soon :)

Naomi said...

Great article! I wish I could make it to the show.

I do agree with Heidi that you should go on tour with this. I think it'll increase your growing fan base and a great way to educate the masses.

Aggiecowgirl12 said...

sir i love your artwork, please dont stop drawing... you give me inspiration for sure... i would give anything to see more Ren and Stimpy episodes, and I'm trying to find the comic books... im also looking for the DVD's of the episodes... aggiemare12@yahoo.com

Alex Whitington said...

I like the bit where it says 'when he's not making cartoons; he's a proud supporter of the ASIFA archives'
I'd have thought you'd have done some kind of eating and sleping at some point. It's also interesting to note that when you're making cartoons you stop supporting the ASIFA archives...How do you do this? Do you wear 'down with ASIFA' T-shirt's to work?
Silly journalists...

Spencer said...

Thats great! I wish you could make even more Cartoony Cartoons!

Waffleboard said...

I'm not sure I agree that "cartoony" cartoons are what got a lot of the old Disney animators into animation. While they do acknowledge how great the cartoony cartoons were, there were also many great things about the "Disney" type of animation that those guys wanted to pursue. The artists at the big feature houses today however, love and were influenced by the great cartoony stuff that most of us like, unfortunately, they are bound creatively by a huge corporate stucture that has a watering down effect on most original and funny ideas.
What I find disapointing is that the animation studios today that are in the best position to show the world how really cool animation could be; the studios with tons of money, tons of amazing artists, or a track record of hits that should give them the power to do what they want, don't do more (or anything at all) to further animation as a cool artform, or at least try to break the stygma (in America) that animation is a kids medium. Studios like Pixar, with all their good films, does frustratingly little to really push style and content and show a mass audience just how cool animation can be. The other big studios are the same way. If they would just give 5 percent of the money they spend just getting their pictures up on reels to some of their own artists begging to do cool stuff (more often than once in a blue moon) I think it would whet the public's appetite for animation done in different styles and in different genres than the rated G kids movie. Ahh hell, it'll never happen....

Anonymous said...

Pixar means well but if they don't break free from their Cal Arts mental archepelago, they'll be just another sore that does not heal on Disney's oozing family entertainment colon.

David Germain said...

BTW, the contents of the Looney Tunes Gold Collection Vol. 4 were announced today.

When you approached them about one whole DVD dedicated to Bob Clampett did they say "No, not for this volume" or "No never ever ever ever"?

(And I will never ever ever ever ever write a song about Sibbie)

warren said...

'A short before the Tenacious D movie. I'm going to see it jsut for that.'

You should try to stick around for those guys' funny timing, physical rhythm, voice talent, and 'mad writing skillz'. Better than most comedians since Red Skelton, Viktor Borge and all those older guys! I wonder if a film can contain them...

JohnK said...

>>When you approached them about one whole DVD dedicated to Bob Clampett did they say "No, not for this volume" or "No never ever ever ever"?<<

I approached the guy who does the supplemental material. He liked it but there are so many levels of management, you can't find anyone who can actually OK anything, and even if you do, it's someone who has never even seen the cartoons, so he doesn't know what you're talking about.

These DVDs ultimately are seen as a sideline to help push the Tweety merchandise. If they could figure out how to change Tweey in the cartoons into a girl, believe me, they would do it!

They'd also love to make all the cartoons look like the merchandise art if they could get the technology to do it.
"REMASTERED IN ON-MODELIZATION!"

Freckled Derelict said...

On an off topic -sorry-
Have you seen the UK TEX AVERY COLLECTOR SET (1942-55)DVD's?
Do you recommend it or are the colors all off?

Kevin W. Martinez said...

"These DVDs ultimately are seen as a sideline to help push the Tweety merchandise. If they could figure out how to change Tweey in the cartoons into a girl, believe me, they would do it!"

Somehow, I very highly doubt that, because for one thing, Tweety is almost completely absent from Volume 4, and for another, there are quite a few Un-PC cartoons (Mississippi Hare, The Sour Puss, Southern Fried Rabbit, some of the Tashlins) on Volume 4.

If Warner honestly didn't care about these cartoons and is only interested in using them to push Tweety Merchandise, then these sets wouldn't be happening at all. There would only be barbones, unrestored single-DVD's with nothing but Tweety.

The Butcher said...

"REMASTERED IN ON-MODELIZATION!"

Oh the horror!

Do you think they could one day digitally add in a basketball spinning on every one of the characters middle finger? Then it can match all these shirts I have.

Put up some more links to VHS of classic Looney Tunes if you can! I guess that's my best bet for untampered with Clampett cartoons.

BrandonPierce said...

So, John, did they not LET you do anymore commentaries? Only Eddie Fitzgerald is on them.

Alex Whitington said...

I think he was using a device known as 'exaggeration'.
Y'know, just like in the cartoons.

Hammerson said...

>> On an off topic -sorry-
Have you seen the UK TEX AVERY COLLECTOR SET (1942-55)DVD's?
Do you recommend it or are the colors all off? <<

You probably mean French Tex Avery DVD's? As far as I know, they were not released in UK, or anywhere else outside France. Apparently, they used the laserdisc transfers which looked rather good (if perhaps uneven in quality), but some of the cartoons are edited, and two or three controversial cartoons are missing completely from the DVD box set.

JohnK said...

>>So, John, did they not LET you do anymore commentaries? Only Eddie Fitzgerald is on them.<<

They asked me to but I chose not to for 2 reasons:

1) They did such a horrible job of remastering the first 3 sets and on the last one, made you sit through a long disclaimer before you could even get to the butchered cartoons.

2) The selection was even worse than the last few.

JohnK said...

>>Somehow, I very highly doubt that, because for one thing, Tweety is almost completely absent from Volume 4, and for another, there are quite a few Un-PC cartoons (Mississippi Hare, The Sour Puss, Southern Fried Rabbit, some of the Tashlins) on Volume 4.<<

There are whole sides of Tweety and Sylvester and whole sides of Pepe Le Pew and The Roadrunner on previous sets.

Hardly any Clampetts.

The sets all lean heavily towards the later limited animation cartoons which are the closest they have to the merchandise versions of the characters.

If there cartoons with slightly un-PC gags on the sets, they were either missed by the execs or Jerry Beck pushed to get them on anyway.

The GagaMan(n) said...

The Tenatious D was pn my most wanted list already, but now it's on the top ofmy list. This will probably be the only chance I'll get of seeing some Spumco animation on a big screen, seeing as I don't live in America (let alone LA) to see all these awesome screenings you do.

BrandonPierce said...

If there cartoons with slightly un-PC gags on the sets, they were either missed by the execs or Jerry Beck pushed to get them on anyway.

I'm pretty sure it was the latter.

Kevin W. Martinez said...

"There are whole sides of Tweety and Sylvester and whole sides of Pepe Le Pew and The Roadrunner on previous sets.

Hardly any Clampetts.

The sets all lean heavily towards the later limited animation cartoons which are the closest they have to the merchandise versions of the characters.

If there cartoons with slightly un-PC gags on the sets, they were either missed by the execs or Jerry Beck pushed to get them on anyway."

For the record only 2 Pepe Le Pew Cartoons have shown up on the GC's.

Volume 4 will bring the level of Clampett WB cartoons on the GCs to 21 (out of 81 total), or 25% of clampett entire WB output. That's a very respectable number. Plus, Bugs Bunny Superstar (which included The Old Grey Hare and What's Cooking, Doc?) will supposedly be a bonus feature.

If these sets all lean heavily towards the later limited animation cartoons, then why did Volume 3 only contain about 20 of them (out of 60)?

Also, some of the catoons that have ended up on the GCs (Goofy Groceries, Have You Got Any Castles?, the Sanfu cartoon Spies) and will show up on Volume 4 (Mississippi Hare, Southern Fried Rabbit) contain Gags that are a little more than "slightly" un-PC.

Anonymous said...

Boy John, you're going to be up shit-creek with your theory on their marketing scheme when volume five comes out...

JohnK said...

>> Boy John, you're going to be up shit-creek with your theory on their marketing scheme when volume five comes out...

<<

If that means they are going to put mostly good cartoons on the set, get rid of the menus and not remaster the Hell out of them, then I hope so!

JohnK said...

>>
For the record only 2 Pepe Le Pew Cartoons have shown up on the GC's.<<

I stand corrected. That's what they should do with Tweety and Sylvester and the Roadrunner-sprinkle them through a whole bunch of sets, rather than fill whole sides with them.

I think they should be a lot smarter about how they make the selections. They should do it in a way that will rebuild a huge fan base for the cartoons.

Maybe I'll post my ideas about that, since they'll never do it anyway.

>>If these sets all lean heavily towards the later limited animation cartoons, then why did Volume 3 only contain about 20 of them (out of 60)?<<

I guess it depends on your definition of "later and limited".

To me, that starts in the early 50s.

I'll stick with the laser disk and video tapes for the time being. At least the cartoons look good and it's easier to get to the ones I want to watch.

You should have heard the cursing when a room full of animators watched the last set.

Anonymous said...

The posted #s coincide with your idea of "later and limited". 44 of the included cartoons were before 1950 on the last set.

JohnK said...

>>The posted #s coincide with your idea of "later and limited". 44 of the included cartoons were before 1950 on the last set. <<

Well that's about 60%, and then out of those they didn't make the smartest selection.

Unfortunately out of the few great ones that are on there, they were all tampered with.

I did commentaries on them and then was totally embarrassed when I saw what they did to them. Everyone in the room was screaming. These are people who have seen these cartoons over and over again for decades and who love them as much as I do.

I'm the biggest supporter of these cartoons and would love to get them back in the hearts and minds of the public. (Witness tonight's event)

It's too bad WB does such a shoddy job of taking care of their cartoons and characters.

Even the folks that work there complain about it.

Freckled Derelict said...

John,
Was cigarettes the cat inspired by the cat in Tex avery's MGM cartoons?

JohnK said...

>>Was cigarettes the cat inspired by the cat in Tex avery's MGM cartoons?<<

The cat with the package muzzle in Kitty Kornered.



Well folks, I'm on my way to promote and support the greatest cartoons ever!

I hope to see you there.

If you do, come back and write about it!

Ted said...

"I think they should be a lot smarter about how they make the selections. They should do it in a way that will rebuild a huge fan base for the cartoons.

Maybe I'll post my ideas about that, since they'll never do it anyway."

Never? What were your thoughts on the laserdisc selections? If the thought process was there for a relatively niche product like the LDs (I was buying LDs from '94 until, well, I bought four in the last month so now I guess, and never saw any of the Looney Tune boxsets in the wild except for the first one), why couldn't it develop for the DVDs? Or, perhaps, for a niche sideline to the Golden Collection (the Tarnish Collection?)?

And I doubt the Golden Collections will be rebuilding a fanbase for the cartoons; they're too expensive for people who aren't fans to buy (which does mean friends or kids of fans might be converted, but that's going to be a limited effect). What they need to do is show the cartoons on TV, and not on something with as limited penetration as Boomerang. At least Teletoon (or is it YTV?) in Canada shows them. If CN won't show them here, they should syndicate them out for cheap. Also, in general the earlier the Looney Tune (excluding the '60s and later), the more I hated it as a kid (Great Piggy Bank Robbery and Porky in Wackyland being the only Clampett cartoons I liked as a kid); I don't recall that being anomalous compared to my peers' experiences, and if kids don't like the cartoons, the fanbase isn't going to grow, no matter how good the technicians say the shorts are...

"on the last one, made you sit through a long disclaimer before you could even get to the butchered cartoons"

Hmmm, I think I said something like this about something else recently...

Sean Worsham said...

Finally some real publicity about the archive!

Anonymous said...

Little girls believe that Tweety is female. WB has stated that "we don't want to mess with that perception."

BROCK MOUNTAINFERN said...

DEAR MR. K,
IF I MAY ASK, WHAT IS YOUR MOTIVATION WHEN IT COMES TO CREATING DESIGNS FOR BIG BURLY CHARACTERS, SUCH AS THE RIPPING FRIENDS? TAKE CARE NOW.

BROCK AND STEELIX.

Jesse Oliver said...

I wonder if the following cartoons will be on the new forth volume of the Looney Tunes Golden Collection?

1. Elmer's Pet Rabbit

2. Hare Ribbin

3. Fin N' Catty

4. Coal Black

5. Tin Pan Alley Cats

6. Henpecked Daffy

And theres also one Clampett cartoon that was done twice. The first time in the 1930's with Porky & Gabby and the second time in the 1940's with Porky & Daffy. What is the name of that cartoon? In this cartoon Porky & Daffy's boss tells them if there late for work again there fired so they go to bed early and in the morning they find out that they don't have to work and they run back to bed. What is the name of that cartoon?

C. A. M. Thompson said...

Yeah it's terrible that Looney Tunes aren't be shown anywhere. This generation might be the first generation in 60 years to grow up without Looney Tunes. Were the ratings that bad? I don't believe it.

"Also, in general the earlier the Looney Tune (excluding the '60s and later), the more I hated it as a kid (Great Piggy Bank Robbery and Porky in Wackyland being the only Clampett cartoons I liked as a kid)"

That's weird. When I was a kid I had a bunch of the cheap tapes of public domain cartoons (with stuff like Dover Boys, The Wacky Wabbit, Corny Concerto, Daffy and The Dinosaur etc) and even though they weren't always good prints I thought they were a lot better than what was on ABC Saturday Mornings, which were all later ones (plus I hated the theme song).

Hammerson said...

>> I wonder if the following cartoons will be on the new forth volume of the Looney Tunes Golden Collection? <<

None of them is on the vol.4. In one of the previous comments, there's the link to the complete list of cartoons included in vol.4.

>> And theres also one Clampett cartoon that was done twice. The first time in the 1930's with Porky & Gabby and the second time in the 1940's with Porky & Daffy. What is the name of that cartoon? <<

That's "Porky's Badtime Story" (1937) and "Tick Tock Tuckered" (1944). I haven't seen the original version with Porky & Gabby, so I don't know what are the differences, beside the most obvious (Daffy instead of Gabby). This remake looks like it used lot of the animation from the original version (rotoscoped probably). Only one part has been done in Clampett's typical mid-'40s style, and that's the scene with Daffy shooting at the moon. You'll immediately notice the change in animation and background style.

rodney said...

Clampett actually reused animation for more of his shorts than anyone else during that time period (39 of his 85 reused animation--Friz comes in second place with 12). That Tick Tock Tuckered was made at all was probably a 40's version of a "cheater". It was a quick way to get a "new" short in circulation. Friz did the same thing with Dough For the Do-Do, except his short is inferior to the original, and Clampett improved on Porky's Badtime Story (in large part due to the likability of Daffy, compared to Gabby who was really annoying).

max ward said...

All I can say is thank the lord for John K.

Also, I read in some interview that took place during the production of APC that next season you were going to do some more "light hearted" cartoons. Did have any of those written?

Gavin Freitas said...

I hope everyone can make it! Because I cant. Good Luck with the show, and cool interview.

Jorge Garrido said...

How was the show? Did cartoonyness return?

Stephen Worth said...

The show last night was amazing. I've seen all the cartoons in John's program, but when he put them in context with his comments and showed them in order, the progression and development was blatantly obvious. Everyone is talking here about what they want to see on the cartoon DVDs. John just nailed *exactly* what they should be... a collection that illuminates, not just shoveling titles onto disks by character. The bonus treat at the end was a sneak peek at John's videos for Weird Al and Tenacious D.

After the program, John sat at a table with his pals and signed and drew for everyone in the room. He was joined by Marlo Meekins and Eddie Fitzgerald who tag-teamed doing caricatures of the most interesting faces in the crowd. Marlo posted a few examples on her blog this morning... http://marlomeekins.blogspot.com/ Check it out. The surprise guest of the evening was the lengendary voice actor, Gary Owens. Yes, Powdered Toast Man was there! His stories (did you know that the Rat Pack did voices in Roger Ramjet?!) were golden!

John was incredibly generous to put this program together to help out ASIFA's Archive. Without him, we wouldn't have accomplished anywhere near as much as we have. Thanks, John!

This show needs to go on tour. The whole world needs cartoony cartoons, and this group of films are the cartooniest!

See ya
Steve

Anonymous said...

I second everything Steve said. The show was great and, as usual, John generously drew for everyone that asked.

mississippiswitchblade said...

love what you have posted John, its nice to see that there are still people working in animation that work for quality and substance. The "unofficial spumco site" you have is great also. Any plans on getting the Yogi cartoons released? Im always up for buying more of your crap.